Can I have some help translating a church file please?

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Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 28 Apr 2008, 19:20

I have this file and I am struggling to read it.....it's bad enough when you need the dictionary to translate every second word but sometimes these church records are tricky....can anyone help?

It is hosted at
[url=http://imageshack.us]

[img=http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4102/dgiovannitalamelli1863oj0.jpg][/url]


I hope this posting of the image works.....I will redo if need be.
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 28 Apr 2008, 19:26

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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 28 Apr 2008, 19:45

OK sorry about my my state of complete disarray....the files I am interested in seeing are the last two entries on the left page.....Giovanni Talamelli
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby JamesBianco » 28 Apr 2008, 21:30

The image you posted (which looks amazing by the way, where is it from?) is far too small for us to translate. Could you possibly zoom in on the entry you need?

Thanks!

:)
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 28 Apr 2008, 22:04

Hi James, this is a photograph of a church record for the parish San Cesareo from 1864/63. What I am looking for the specific information on is the last two entries on the left hand page and it seems to wrap to the top of the next page. For what it's worth I think that it roughly mentions that there is a letter from prison that they are waiting for with Giovanni's record....and that he died in Parma (it relates to another posting I made earlier in the other forum about locating prison records.....I want to be sure that I haven't missed anything pertinent to getting those prison records)

I hope this works

[URL=http://imageshack.us]Image[/

[img=http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8669/dgiovannitalamelli1863cr7.jpg]
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 28 Apr 2008, 22:21

......one of these days I am going to get it right on the first try.....sorry


Image


[img=http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2912/dgiovannitalamelli1863tc8.th.jpg]
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Lucap » 29 Apr 2008, 20:19

Die 20 Januarii 1864.
Fidelis Eusebius f(ilius) Petri Salamelli et Annuntiata q(uonda)m Petri Roscetti dierum 4 hora fere xxx 4 post m(eridiem) transacti diei, obdormivit in Domino. Suprad(ict)a die exsequiis rite peractis sepultus fuit in hac Par(ochia)le Ecclesia. In quorum fidem.
Ita est = Franciscus rector Cinotti ma(n)u p(ro)pria

Il giorno 20 di Gennaio 1864.
Fedele Eusebio figlio di Pietro Salamelli e Annunziata del fu Pietro Roscetti, di giorni 4 alle ore (xxx xxx) 4 del pomeriggio dello scorso giorno, si addormentò nel Signore. Il giorno suddetto (20 Gennaio) compiute le esequie secondo il rito, fu sepolto in questa Chiesa Parrocchiale. In fede.
Così è. Francesco Cinotti Rettore di propria mano.

Prego qualcuno del forum di voler aiutare Clicker con la traduzione in Inglese.

Luca
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Lucap » 29 Apr 2008, 21:16

Die 23 Januarii 1864.
Ex littera testimoniali sub die 23 Januarii 1864 ad hoc Par(ochia)le Officium remissa firmata(!) [ab] D. Annibale Equite di Montelvetere vulgo di Montevecchio Municipii Fancusis(?) Sindaco constat quomodo Joannis f(ilius) q(uonda)m Antonii Salamelli et Maria Pascucci, conjux Victoriae Cecchi, aetatis suae annorum 40 mensium 9 dierum 26 in Parmae carcere surgens die 31 decembris 1863, obdormivit in Domino. In quorum fidem.
Ita est = F(ranciscus) Rector Cinotti manu p(ro)pria.

Il giorno 23 di Gennaio 1864.
Da una lettera testimoniale resa a questo Ufficio Parrocchiale nel giorno 23 di Gennaio 1864, firmata dal Signor Annibale cavaliere di Montevetere, detto volgarmente Montevecchio, Sindaco del Municipio di Fancuso(!!!), consta che Giovanni figlio del fu Antonio Salamelli e Maria Pascucci, marito di Vittoria Cecchi, dell'età di anni 40, mesi 9 e giorni 26, nel carcere di Parma all'alba del 31 Dicembre 1863 si addormentò nel Signore. In fede
Così è. Francesco Cinotti Rettore di propria mano

Ut supra per la traduzione :D

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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby elba » 29 Apr 2008, 22:54

Lucap wrote:Die 20 Januarii 1864.
Fidelis Eusebius f(ilius) Petri Salamelli et Annuntiata q(uonda)m Petri Roscetti dierum 4 hora fere xxx 4 post m(eridiem) transacti diei, obdormivit in Domino. Suprad(ict)a die exsequiis rite peractis sepultus fuit in hac Par(ochia)le Ecclesia. In quorum fidem.
Ita est = Franciscus rector Cinotti ma(n)u p(ro)pria

Il giorno 20 di Gennaio 1864.
Fedele Eusebio figlio di Pietro Salamelli e Annunziata del fu Pietro Roscetti, di giorni 4 alle ore (xxx xxx) 4 del pomeriggio dello scorso giorno, si addormentò nel Signore. Il giorno suddetto (20 Gennaio) compiute le esequie secondo il rito, fu sepolto in questa Chiesa Parrocchiale. In fede.
Così è. Francesco Cinotti Rettore di propria mano.

Prego qualcuno del forum di voler aiutare Clicker con la traduzione in Inglese.

Luca



The day of 20th January 1864
Fedele Eusebio son of Pietro Salamelli and Annunziata of the late Pietro Roscetti, aged 4 days at the hour of (xxx xxx) 4 in the afternoon of the last day, fell asleep with the Lord. On the above mentioned day (20th January)
the funeral rites were completed and according to the custom, was buried in this Parish Church. In faith.
So it is. Francesco Cinotti Rector in his hand.

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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby elba » 29 Apr 2008, 23:09

Lucap wrote:Die 23 Januarii 1864.
Ex littera testimoniali sub die 23 Januarii 1864 ad hoc Par(ochia)le Officium remissa firmata(!) [ab] D. Annibale Equite di Montelvetere vulgo di Montevecchio Municipii Fancusis(?) Sindaco constat quomodo Joannis f(ilius) q(uonda)m Antonii Salamelli et Maria Pascucci, conjux Victoriae Cecchi, aetatis suae annorum 40 mensium 9 dierum 26 in Parmae carcere surgens die 31 decembris 1863, obdormivit in Domino. In quorum fidem.
Ita est = F(ranciscus) Rector Cinotti manu p(ro)pria.

Il giorno 23 di Gennaio 1864.
Da una lettera testimoniale resa a questo Ufficio Parrocchiale nel giorno 23 di Gennaio 1864, firmata dal Signor Annibale cavaliere di Montevetere, detto volgarmente Montevecchio, Sindaco del Municipio di Fancuso(!!!), consta che Giovanni figlio del fu Antonio Salamelli e Maria Pascucci, marito di Vittoria Cecchi, dell'età di anni 40, mesi 9 e giorni 26, nel carcere di Parma all'alba del 31 Dicembre 1863 si addormentò nel Signore. In fede
Così è. Francesco Cinotti Rettore di propria mano
Ut supra per la traduzione :D
Luca



On the day of 23rd january 1864
From a witnesses letter surrendered to this Parish Office on the day of 23rd January 1864, signed by Mr. Annibale knight of Montevetere, commonly called Montevecchio, Municipal Mayor of Fancuso!!!, verifies that Giovanni son of the late Antonio Salamelli and Maria Pascucci, husband of Vittoria Cecchi, of the age of 40 years, 9 months and 26 days, in the prison of Parma at dawn on the 31st December 1863 slept in the Lord. In faith.
So it is. Francesco Cinotti Rector in his hand.
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 29 Apr 2008, 23:30

Elba and Lucap......thank you so much for the information.

I kind of got the gist.....but wanted to make sure that I was correct in my assumption particularily about the prison information......

Just curious, considering that the second entry specifically mentions 'dawn' do you think Giovanni was executed? I am kind of assuming yes.....but you never know.

Just so you know a little about what you translated.....Giovanni Talamelli is my GGG grandfather and he was 48 at his passing...I think that the Priest simply copied what was on the letter that came from Parma.....despite his young age he had 6 children and it seems no one else landed in jail (at least as far as I can tell)......in another post, I have asked the question and am trying to find out how you can get a hold of prison records....this is kind of interesting becuase Giovanni is from the coast, the city of Fano in the province of Pesaro.....a very long way indeed from Parma......but now I am rambling. Sorry.


Thanks again.
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby elba » 30 Apr 2008, 07:42

What I did find strange on the second translation was the total absence of any comment on the blessing and the funeral. Just the bare fact that he joined the Lord ('died') at dawn...

I don't know about Italy, but in the UK when capital punishment was still in use, anyone who was hanged/executed could not be buried in "hallowed ground". If I remember correctly they were interred in a quiet corner of the prison grounds.

I'm sure there are some here who will know what the custom was here in Italy, and also how you can obtain (if possible) prison records.
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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Lucap » 30 Apr 2008, 08:05

Lucap wrote: Fedele Eusebio figlio di Pietro Salamelli
Sorry, I wasn't sure it was a S or a T and I wrote Salamelli instead Talamelli; maybe I had to use the fallowing sign: (!)
However the age related by the priest is very accurated: are you sure he was really 48 at that moment?

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Re: Can I have some help translating a church file please?

Postby Clicker » 01 May 2008, 17:29

Hi Lucap

Yes I am sure of the age, I have his birth records from the church as well the fact that his first born child would have been conceived at 15 if the number 40 was accurate.... I think the priest, it seems to me is writing down the information that he received in a letter and simply making note of the information....not sure that the prison was necessarily accurate about the information.


Hi Elba, I believe from all I have read that the same holds true for Italy about the burial in hallowed ground after an execution (I am not sure the priest is implying he was buried only that he was recording the death)....I am trying to figure out right now about getting those prison records, I am curious as to why he was in a prison so very far away from home.....his hometown is Fano and the prison is in Parma......the suspicion is that perhaps he was caught up in revolutionary activity?....becuase I think that if he committed a crime locally he would have simply been jailed either in his hometown or in the next nearest large city (Pesaro or Urbino)

This is an interesting albeit gruesome and ghoulish hunt!!! Thanks for the help.
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