Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

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cesternino
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Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby cesternino » 21 Jun 2009, 22:45

Hello -
I need the birth certificate of Benedetto Papa, born January 25, 1880 in the Region of Calabria, Province of Consenza, Comune of Cetraro, in a little village of San’Angelo di Cetraro.

Benedetto died April 14, 1923 in Amsterdam, New York. At time of his death, Benedetto as also know as Benjamin Papas.

At the time of Benedetto's death, his father was still alive & living in Italy and his sister Cristina (sp?) alive & living in NYC.

Benedetto's paternal aunt, Michelina Papa, married Pietro Santoro. Their daughter, Rosa, married Mr. Gregori & was living in Staten Island, NY as late as the 1960's.

We are also related to the Paletta family.
Any help in locating Benedetto's birth & family info would be sincerely appreciated.
Thanks
Cissi Cesternino

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 22 Jun 2009, 08:42

Hi Cissi,

it's just a little clue but maybe should have been his birth year a little different?
On his arrival manifest on 1902 he stated he was 25 years old, so possible born around 1877....
Travelling with Michele Gregori (Rosa Santoro's husband?)

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0014

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 22 Jun 2009, 11:26

Just for references is this 1913 arrival manifest correct for Benedetto's aunt Michela Papa?

Travelling with her husband Pietro Santoro, leaving in Italy (Cetraro) the family of Santoro Giuseppa, going to South Beach to join their son Vincenzo Santoro...

Page 1:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0002

Page 2:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0002

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby cesternino » 08 Jul 2009, 05:33

Laura - I REALY hope this message reaches you. You've just knocked down my brick wall.

Apparently my link to this forum was lost and I just found your 2005 e-mail. You've found my grnadfather, Benedetto Papa. I've searched the Ellis Island database for years and never found this entry. Thank you so much.

I've been using Benedetto's birth date listed on his death certificate. Obviously, it's wrong.

Thanks you thank you thank you.
Cissi

pink67 wrote:Hi Cissi,

it's just a little clue but maybe should have been his birth year a little different?
On his arrival manifest on 1902 he stated he was 25 years old, so possible born around 1877....
Travelling with Michele Gregori (Rosa Santoro's husband?)

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0014

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby cesternino » 08 Jul 2009, 05:40

Laura - I REALY hope this message reaches you. You've just knocked down my brick wall.

Apparently my link to this forum was lost and I just found your 2005 e-mail. You've found my grnadfather, Benedetto Papa. I've searched the Ellis Island database for years and never found this entry. Thank you so much.

I've been using Benedetto's birth date listed on his death certificate. Obviously, it's wrong.

Thanks you thank you thank you.
Cissi

pink67 wrote:Hi Cissi,

it's just a little clue but maybe should have been his birth year a little different?
On his arrival manifest on 1902 he stated he was 25 years old, so possible born around 1877....
Travelling with Michele Gregori (Rosa Santoro's husband?)

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0014

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby cesternino » 08 Jul 2009, 05:43

Laura -
"Thank You" seems so insufficient. Your two messages provided more information regarding the emmigration/immigration of Benedetto Papa and his family than I've found in the past 6+ years.

Now - if I could just figure out how to download the manifest, I'm GOLD.

Thank you
Cissi


pink67 wrote:Just for references is this 1913 arrival manifest correct for Benedetto's aunt Michela Papa?

Travelling with her husband Pietro Santoro, leaving in Italy (Cetraro) the family of Santoro Giuseppa, going to South Beach to join their son Vincenzo Santoro...

Page 1:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0002

Page 2:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0002

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby eyetalgal » 08 Jul 2009, 06:47

Cissi - I sent you a private message

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 09:39

:D Hi Cissi!
I'm very happy to have helped you....

Here is a better copy of the arrival manifest for Benedetto:

From Ancestry.com (last name very mispelled!!!)

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Benedetto Lapo
Name: Benedetto Lapo
Arrival Date: 27 May 1902
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Ship Name: Neustria
Search Ship Database: Search the Neustria in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 14
Microfilm Serial: 15
Microfilm Roll: T715_279
Page Number: 56

image:
[img=http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1701/papapbenedetto1902arriv.th.jpg]

Benedetto wa travelling with Michele Gregori, them both stated they were joining their cousin Leopoldo Paletta living on 302 East 111 Street NYC

Have you ever checked this very helpful (italian) site from the State Archive of Cosenza?

http://88.59.143.158/ascs_web/index.faces

You have to register but it's free...

Laura :D

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 10:02

I forgot the arrival manifest for Pietro Santoro and his wife Michela:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Pietro Santoro
Name: Pietro Santoro
Arrival Date: 12 Sep 1913
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Ship Name: Hamburg
Search Ship Database: View the Hamburg in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
NATIVITY: Italy
Line: 1
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_2173
Birth Location: Italy
Birth Location Other: cebrano
Page Number: 140

page 1:
[img=http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3410/santoropietro1913page1.th.jpg]

page 2:
[img=http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2739/santoropietro1913page2.th.jpg]

and just for references:

1920 United States Federal Census
about Benjamin Papas
Name: Benjamin Papas
[Benymsin Pafas]
Home in 1920: Amsterdam Ward 6, Montgomery, New York
Age: 39 years
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Julia T
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Own
Year of Immigration: 1902
Able to read: No
Able to Write: No
Image: 474
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Benjamin Papas 39
Julia T Papas 31
Joseph M Papas 5

Joseph Toruni 29

[img=http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7471/papaben1920.th.jpg]

I can suggest you also to check this great free site:

http://www.fultonhistory.com/

from the site the article about the death of Julia (Benjamin's wife) on 1961:

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper4 ... ehtml&.pdf

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 10:26

Cissi,

Benedetto's aunt Michelina Santoro was stilla live in the 1930 census... she was 92 years old!!

1930 United States Federal Census
about Michelina Santoro
Name: Michelina Santoro
Home in 1930: Richmond, Richmond, New York
View Map
Age: 92
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Mother-in-law
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Michel Gregory 50
Rosa Gregory 51
Alice Gregory 20
Emila Gregory 11
Edward Gregory 14
Michelina Santoro 92

[img=http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3879/santoromichelina1930cen.th.jpg]


on the site of the State Archive in Cosenza I found this date:

Atto di nascita
Stato Civile, Comune di CETRARO.
Registro numero 33, atto numero 50 di pagina -

Michelina Papa nato/a il 03/03/1839

da Michele Papa, bracciale, 40 anni e da Manuela Di Cianni, 30 anni

If you know her exact birth date you can compare it....

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 12:37

Possible birth dates for Pietro Santoro?

from: http://88.59.143.158/ascs_web/index.faces

Stato Civile, Comune di CETRARO.
Registro numero 33, atto numero 225 di pagina -

Pietro Maria Santoro nato/a il 15/09/1839

da Vincenzo Santoro, bracciale, 22 anni e da Teresa Di Cianni, 20 anni

:?:

If the above dates are correct Michelina was 6 moths older that Pietro....
I noticed on their arrival manifest that Michelina stated she was 74 while her husband was 73... :wink: :!:

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 13:00

Cissi,

I hope I'm not "overwhelming" you with all these dates but I believe I really found the right persons!!

I just want to make you see this:

1920 United States Federal Census
about Michelina Santoro
Name: Michelina Santoro
Home in 1920: Richmond Assembly District 2, Richmond, New York
Age: 84 years
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
[abt 1886]
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Mother-in-law
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Widow
Race: White
Sex: Female
Year of Immigration: 1912
Able to read: No
Able to Write: No
Image: 152
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Amcal Arrino 22 head, born in IT, year of immigr. 1901
Michelina Arrino 20 wife, born in FRANCE, year of immigr. 1902
Anglina Arrino 1/12 daughter, born in NY
Michelina Santoro 84 mother in law, born in IT, year of immigr. 1912


[img=http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/259/santoromichelina1920cen.th.jpg]

So, it seems Michelina was living with her daughter Michelina (age 20, so she had her daughter at about 60 of age! 8O )

If you look well the manifest the family a few lines above was Santoro Vincent (age45, year of immigr. 1902) living with his wife Filomena, so I did remember that Pietro and Michelina stated they were joining their son Vincenzo at their 1913 arrival.

Well, Vincenzo was born around 1875.
Here are his birth dates:

Ufficio Leva della Provincia di Cosenza, Liste di Leva della classe 1873. Registro numero 120, atto numero 73 di pagina 215 sezione a
Vincenzo Santoro, iscritto il --/--/----
nato il 23/03/1873 a CETRARO
da Pietro Santoro e da Michelina Papa :!:

So we can be pretty sure they are your relatives :D

Laura

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 13:14

Wow!

Michelina (age 20 on 1920 census) wasn't Michelina Papa Santoro's daughter... she was her grandaughter... she was Vincenzo Santoro's daughter....

Here is the 1902 arrival Manifest for Vincenzo Santoro, his wife Filomena and little daughter Michelina (age 3), them both stated Marseille - France as last residence, this is why she declared on the 1920 census she was born in France!
They were joining their borhter in law Michele Gregori:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Vincenzo Santaro
Name: Vincenzo Santaro
Arrival Date: 3 Nov 1902
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Marseille, France
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Ship Name: Massilia
Search Ship Database: Search the Massilia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Line: 3
Microfilm Serial: 15
Microfilm Roll: T715_306
Page Number: 2

[img=http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4333/santorovincenzo1902arri.th.jpg]

:D

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby cesternino » 08 Jul 2009, 14:43

Laura -
Wow - Amazing!! Thank You. Thank you.

It will take me a while to check out the links. I can't wait to start on the one for Cosenza.

Apparently one of the biggest research problems has been Benedetto's birth date.
His May, 1902 arrival info gives his age as 25, resulting in an approximate birth year of 1877;
The 1920 Census sets his birth at approximately 1881.
The 1910 Census sets his birth at approximately 1882.
I have a WWI Draft/Alien Registration Card that sets his birth date as 1889;
His death certificate sets his birth date as 1880.01.15 and his date of death, at age 43, as 1923.04.14.
I think that might be the most accurate.

The 1910 Census lists him in Amsterdam, NY as
Pappa, Bernard Age 28.
Using the calculation of 1910 minus age 28, gives a birth date of 1882.
This census was taken between April 15 and May 2, 1910 - after his January 25th birthday.
BUT - he can’t be 25 when he arrived in 1902 and 28 eight years later. So, one or both are incorrect.

The 1920 Census lists him in Amsterdam as
Papas, Benjamin, age 39
Using the calculation of 1920 minus age 39, gives a birth date of 1881. However, this census was taken January 16, 1920 - just before his 40th birthday on January 25th.
So, using the calculation of 1920 minus age 40, it confirms an 1880 birth date.

Does that seem right to you?

It looks as if I’ll have to locate Benedetto’s parents - and confirm his birth date - by tracing back through his cousin, Rosa Santora, daughter of Michelina Papa & Pietro Santora. Your confirmation that Vicenzo Santora was Rosa’s brother will help with that. Again - a huge “Thank Youâ€

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Re: Papa, Santoro & Gregori from Calabria, Italy and NY

Postby pink67 » 08 Jul 2009, 15:11

Cissi!
You're very welcome.... I love help people searching for their italian roots...
Just a little advice...
As you now know also Michelina Papa's parent's names:

Atto di nascita
Stato Civile, Comune di CETRARO.
Registro numero 33, atto numero 50 di pagina -

Michelina Papa nato/a il 03/03/1839

da Michele Papa, bracciale, 40 anni e da Manuela Di Cianni, 30 anni

You'll easily find also all Michelina Papa's brothers and sisters on the site of the State Archive of Cosenza... :wink:
Search also for Michele Papa (Benedetto's grandfather) birth dates :wink:

It seems Michele and Emanuela/Manuela Di Cianni had many child!
Between those names there must be also Benedetto's father...
In any case you now know also Benedetto Papa's grandparent's names :!:

Tell me if you need other help , I'll be more than happy to help you.

Good luck with your search!

Laura


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