Looking for help

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Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 29 Jul 2011, 20:23

I have been able to trace my GreatGrandfather through Elis Island. This is the information I have at this point:

Mario C. Granata
Born 23 July 1895
Died 16 December 1992
Married to Rosalia Giardina 16 September 1916 in Brooklyn, NY until her death in October 1992

Emigrated from Italy:

Date of Arrival 24 June 1907
Ship: Campania
Port of Departure: Naples
Age on Arrival : 12
Place of Residence: Selafoni ??

This is where I am having the issue, I am unable to locate Selafoni on any maps. I am sure of the town name, at least this is how it is listed on the Ellis Island Records and copy of the ships manifest. I am happy to have this link to the Old Country, but would like to see if I could go even deeper. Any information or assistance would be appreciated. Also, Mario may have had a brother by the name of Charles or Carlos.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 29 Jul 2011, 22:44

For reference, here is the manifest. Mario is on line 2.

Image

I believe the place name is actually Sclafani, specifically Comune di Sclafani Bagni, Provincia di Palermo, Regione di Sicilia.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2011, 01:57

PS: Welcome to the forum and to Italian genealogy research! May the wind always be at your back. :)

As you continue your research, you will find that indexes are more often wrong than right; place names are routinely mis-transcribed and both surnames and given names often suffer the same fate.

A good way to verify given names is to use a site like this one:

http://www.nomix.it/nomi-italiani-maschili-e-femminili.php.

For surnames, I often turn to the Italian telephone directory; if a name doesn't turn up in modern Italy, there is a good chance it is misspelled: http://www.paginebianche.it/index_en.html

And, for place names, try googling "comune di ______"; every comune has a web site. Comune di Sclafani Bagni's is here http://www.comune.sclafani-bagni.pa.it/. Although far from perfect, you can get a reasonable translation of any web page by pasting the sit's URL (web address) into Google's translation engine at http://translate.google.com and clicking the Translate button.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 30 Jul 2011, 02:38

Johnnyonthespot,

Thank you for your help on this. I have seen the document you posted before and never thought the "e" could be a "c". This actually makes much more sence to me. And thank you for the added sites.

Now my question on the document is this, can anyone make out what it says in box 16? The section on who he is going to be staying with?
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Re: Looking for help

Postby Tessa78 » 30 Jul 2011, 02:47

Talkingrat wrote:Johnnyonthespot,

Thank you for your help on this. I have seen the document you posted before and never thought the "e" could be a "c". This actually makes much more sence to me. And thank you for the added sites.

Now my question on the document is this, can anyone make out what it says in box 16? The section on who he is going to be staying with?


Looks like he's going to join his father Filippo Granata at 5 Munroe(sp?) St., NY
Also looks like those below him are going to the same address... :-)
and all from Sclafani.

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Re: Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 30 Jul 2011, 21:06

Ok, so far everything I have found in the last 24 hours has been interesting and very informative. But, one document I have found has really sent me for a loop. I found a document from the 1930 Federal Census. I found my Great Granfater, although the record has his name spelled MarEo. I know it is him because the rest of the family information is correct, such as the names and ages of my Great Grandmother, Grandmother and Great Aunt. But on there I found another relitive living with him in 1930, his mother Rosalie Granata, Born 1868 in Italy, emmegrated to the US in 1929 (Per the Census Record). I tried to research her immigration records throught he Ellis Island site however their records end some time around 1923. I am wonderif if anyone has any tips other then going through the Federal Government to research her immegration.

PS: I was able to find a copy of Mario's draft card from WWII which lists his place of birth as Palermo. At least this give me more direction to look in for him.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 30 Jul 2011, 22:07

I was able to call my Grandmother a little while ago and we spoke about what I have found. She did share a little information with me. It seems that my Great Great Grandmother never actually moved here. She just happened to be in the US for a visit to with her son and his family when the census was taken and they marked her as a resident. But at least I have some more direction to go in.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2011, 22:13

Do you have any idea what Rosalie's maiden name may have been? Contrary to the way things are done in the US, Italian women then and now maintain their maiden name for their entire life. When they traveled - especially if without their husband - it is common to see them listed under their maiden names.

I have researched Rosa* born 1867-1869 arrived 1928-1930 without success. I will continue as time permits.

PS: I was able to find a copy of Mario's draft card from WWII which lists his place of birth as Palermo. At least this give me more direction to look in for him.


As noted above, Sclafani Bagni is a comune (city, village) within the province of Palermo, so this ties in nicely. At this point, you probably have enough information to write to Sclafani Bagni and request his birth record.

Alternatively, your local Family History Center (run by the Mormon church) has microfilms of the Registri dello stato civile di Sclafani (Palermo), 1822-1910. http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=498878&disp=Registri+dello+stato+civile+di+Sclafani+%20%20&columns=*,0,0 There are many threads here on how to use these films for research; feel free to ask questions if you are interested.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2011, 22:26

Talkingrat wrote:I was able to call my Grandmother a little while ago and we spoke about what I have found. She did share a little information with me. It seems that my Great Great Grandmother never actually moved here. She just happened to be in the US for a visit to with her son and his family when the census was taken and they marked her as a resident. But at least I have some more direction to go in.


Next time you speak with your grandmother, ask if the names Vincenzo Feudale or Concetta Granata mean anything to her.

I found some interesting passenger records, but not certain if I am just seeing a series of coincidences.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 30 Jul 2011, 23:38

Next time you speak with your grandmother, ask if the names Vincenzo Feudale or Concetta Granata mean anything to her.


This sounds familiar to me. I seem to remember and "Aunt Connie" which fits in with Concetta. I will be seeing my grandmother next week so I can ask.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2011, 09:52

Examine these documents carefully:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Concetta Rosalia Siragusa
Name: Concetta Rosalia Siragusa
Arrival Date: 26 Oct 1928
Birth Year: abt 1869
Birth Location: Italy
Birth Location Other: selafani
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Conte Biancamano

Sheet 1, Line 2:
Image

Sheet 2:
Image



Border Crossings: From U.S. to Canada, 1908-1935 about Concetta Granata
Name: Concetta Granata
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Arrival Port: Niagara Falls, Ontario
Date of Arrival: 13 Aug 1929
Birth Location: Sclafani, Italy
Gender: Female
Citizenship: Italian

Line 16:
Image


The first is a passenger manifest for Concetta Rosalia Siragusa arriving in the US in October, 1928 from Sclafani. On sheet 2 of the manifest, we see that her husband's name is Vincenzo Feudale and that she is coming to visit her son Filippo in Brooklyn, crossed out and then Mario (?) written in.

The second item is a US-to-Canada Border Crossing some 10 months later in August, 1929, for Concetta Granata from Sclafani. The name of her husband, who is still in Italy, is "Vencinzenso" Feudale.

Clearly, both of these documents relate to the same person; it seems possible that she made the trip to Canada because her original visa was set to expire (page 2 of the manifest above). I am inclined to believe this might be the very same Rosalia listed residing with Mario in the 1930 census (taken on April 11, 1930). Of course, we would have to account for two things:

1) That "Concetta" returned from Canada in time for the April, 1930 census

2) Possibly Mario's father died and "Concetta Rosalia Siragusa" (maiden name?) remarried a man named Vincenzo Feudale. I am not certain how else to account for "Concetta Granata" and "Concetta Rosalia Siragusa" both being married to Vincenzo Feudale.
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2011, 16:27

Although she is lined out (means did not actually sail on this voyage), this entry seems to tie Concetta Siragusa to the Granata family. On sheet 2, she is coming to visit her son Filippo who appears to live at the same address mentioned in Tessa78's earlier post above.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Cornetta Siragusa
Name: Cornetta Siragusa
Arrival Date: 17 Dec 1909
Birth Year: abt 1870
Birth Location: Sicily
Birth Location Other: selafani
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Palermo
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Oceania

Line 16, Sheet 1:
Image

Sheet 2:
Image
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Re: Looking for help

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2011, 16:45

Another "did not sail" manifest, but this one should really tie things together: Concetta Siragusa traveling with 12 year-old "Tiera" Granata leaving behind "father Giovanni" and coming to visit her son/his brother Filippo Granata.


New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Cornetta Siragusa
Name: Cornetta Siragusa
Arrival Date: 17 Dec 1909
Birth Year: abt 1870
Birth Location: Sicily
Birth Location Other: selafani
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Palermo
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Oceania


Lines 19 and 20, Sheet 1:
Image

Sheet 2:
Image
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Re: Looking for help

Postby Talkingrat » 31 Jul 2011, 23:24

WOW, thank you for the information. The Rosalie listed in the first manifest that is going to visit her son Mario is in fact my GG Grandmother as the address the hand wrote in is the address they lived at untill their death in 1992. I also noted that the visa was extended until April 1930 so that would put her there during the census.

But as for the other people all going to 5 Monroe St. NY. I have found some very interesting information about this address. Currently, on that site, sits a church. The current church building itself was built in 1924. However, the parish was founded in 1887 to help serve the needs of the many immigrants of the time. I have written to the church inquiring as to what services they may have provided to immigrants in the early 1900's. I would be interested in finding out that they provided rooms to many immigrants. I will let you know what I found out.

Regarding the persons listed in the 1909 manifest, a few things just are not adding up. My G Grandfather was born in 1896. If the person coming to visit Fillippe was Fillippe's mother, I do not see how she could have been Mario's Grandmother as well. I am wondering if there may have been a mistake in the listing of the relation? Or, seeing as there may have been a church there at the time, if "Father" Fillippe was in fact a priest?
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