Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

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Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 14 Feb 2012, 03:58

I am researching a family from Castelnuovo di Conza. The Surnames are Sibilia or Cibelli and Bagarozza. I am trying to get a birth record on a Francesco Sibilia or Cibelli. Spelling of surname is in doubt becasue it was changed in the USA.

I do not see any films on Family Search for Castelnuovo di Conza. I wrote three request letters in Italian to the Civil Registration and have not received a reply.I wrote to the Archives in Salerno and their reply said to send a letter to Castelnuoveo di Conza.

He is Francesco Sibilia or Cibelli. He was born approximately 1881 according to his age on the USA marriage record. His father is Fortunato and his Mother is Amata maria

If anyone living in Castelnuovo di Conza is reading this I could use your help.

Thank you, Jack
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby PippoM » 14 Feb 2012, 09:06

Hi Jack,
you can try writing an e-mail to

info@comune.castelnuovodiconza.sa.it

Maybe they will answer
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 14 Feb 2012, 17:24

Hi Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi, thanks for the information I will send them a message and see if they can help. I believe part of my problem is that the information I have on Francesco is not definite, the name is not certain and the birthday is only approximate. Because of this the Civil Registration has to research their records to find the correct date. I am sure they have more work to do then researching an old record. I can't blame then for not doing it.
I didn't know about the address you suggested. Thanks again.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby Tessa78 » 14 Feb 2012, 21:44

Hello Jack!

The surname SIBILIA is found in Castelnuovo di Conza, but not the surname CIBELLI.
(Though both can be found in the Campania Region :-) )

Do you mind my asking... how did you establish the place of birth?

Where in US did Francesco live? Wife's name, children? Maybe we can do a search also to see what we can find.

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 15 Feb 2012, 16:58

Tessa, yesteerday I replied to your posting but I don't see it today on the board. I am not sure I did it correctly and it may have gotten lost. If you did not receive a reply to yuur message let me know and I will enter it the correct way.
I do appreciate your offer to help and in the message I laid out the information I have gathered on this strange family.
My nephew is very anxious to learn about the true heritage of his family. He has an americanized name and doesn't know where in Italy they came from. I think I have found out the information and now I am trying to prove it to be correct.

Thank you
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 15 Feb 2012, 18:21

Dear Jack,
thinking abt your search, we know from previous thread, that Frank Bagarozza surely was born in Castelnuovo di Conza; and the suggestion was that Frank Bagarozza was most probably a cousin of your Francesco Sibilia; that because Sibilia children called him "Zi'Frank=Uncle Frank;
but Castelnuovo di Conza no replied abt Francesco Sibilia birth; and in effects maybe the data was no enough for a search in old registries...
what we know abt Francesco Sibilia?
from previous topic:

Marriage date 7 Dec 1904
Groom-Frank Siballo. Occupation shoemaker. Birthplace-Italy. age 23. Living at 181 8th Ave, Newark, NJ
His father Fortunato Siballo
His Mother Amata Maria Bozasso. (Third letter very much in doubt. Looks like an American English written "r" but does not resemble any other "r" written on the form. Best guess is that it was a "z')

Bride-Katie Colonna. birthplace USA, Age 17. Living at 107 7th Avenue, Newark, NJ.
Her Father Horatio Colonna.
Her Mother Carmella Gillani.


In 1920 Katie is with children and living with own parents:
1920 Census shows:
Head Aurozio Colonna
Wife Carmella Colonna
Katherine Gibella Daughter
Fortunato Grandchild
Angelo Grandchild
Maria Grandchild
Romeo Grandchild
Lorinda Grandchild (Florence)
Frances Grandchild.


In 1930:
1930
Name: Katherine Cebello
Event: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Verona, Essex, New Jersey
Gender: Female
Age: 39
Marital Status: Widowed
Race: White
Birthplace: New York
Estimated Birth Year: 1891
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Enumeration District Number: 0618
Family Number: 271
Sheet Number and Letter: 12A
Line Number: 31
NARA Publication: T626, roll 1344
Film Number: 2341079
Digital Folder Number: 4660897
Image Number: 00569
Household Gender Age
Katherine Cebello F 39
Child Angelo Cebello
M 22
Child Marie Cebello
F 21
Child Florence Cebello
F 16
Child Romeo Cebello
M 19
Child Frances Cebello
F 15

Frank Bangorozzo
M 39

Josephine Bangorozzo
F 35



the oldest son was married:
Name: Fortune A Cebello
Event: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Verona, Essex, New Jersey
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Birthplace: New Jersey
Estimated Birth Year: 1907
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: New Jersey
Enumeration District Number: 0618
Family Number: 272
Sheet Number and Letter: 12A
Line Number: 39
NARA Publication: T626, roll 1344
Film Number: 2341079
Digital Folder Number: 4660897
Image Number: 00569
Household Gender Age
Fortune A Cebello M 23
Spouse Louise Cebello
F 21
Child Frank Cebello
M 2


so the surname Siballo on marriage record, becoming Gibella in 1920 census and Cebello in 1930 census

my suggestion was that the surname could be SIBILIA and Sibilia is a surname in Castelnuovo di Conza; it supposed that was born in Castelnuovo di Conza, because Frank Bagarozza coming from this town...

Searching abt Frank Sibilia/Siballo/Gibella/Cebello I am positive that the right italian spelling could be Sibilia; now Castelnuovo di Conza no replied; and Salerno archive no found military records and send the request to Castelnuovo di Conza...

Sibilia, as I said is a surname in Castelnuovo di Conza, but, searching abt that, I believe that is not a original family name of Castelnuovo di Conza; the Sibilia in Newark NJ, coming from Lioni and Teora and surrounding area....
Castelnuovo di Conza is no far from Lioni
http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&q=aman ... CF8Q8gEwAw

we have no records abt Francesco Sibilia; no arrival, no 1910 census no other...
in 1904 marriage record, the address was:
181 8th Ave, Newark, NJ

I found a arrival abt the Sibilias from Lioni, joining at son Guglielmo, living in
179 8th ave Newark, NJ
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0012

seeming very close Frank address in 1904!

It is possible that Francesco Sibilia(?) was related to this Guglielmo (William) Sibilia?
If so, the birthplace could be Lioni (Avellino province) and for that Salerno Archive no found the record...

it exist Cibelli surname also and Scibello and also this surnames was in Newark, NJ;

for to continue he search we must find almost the arrival of your Francesco; and the 1910 census...
just for to have a idea if the surname spelling and birthyear if matching with age in marriage record....
But I cannot no arrival no 1910 census,
regards,
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 15 Feb 2012, 23:14

Saunj, I just typed a message to you with information I have found since we last exchanged messages. When I finished I clicked on preview and it disappeared. I think it was erased because I can't find it anywhere. So you may get two answers to your post.
I started this posting on this site after I went on to Rootswb looking at my non-Italian family and also searched under Castelnuovo di Conza. There was a post from a Gabriele Bagarozzo who lives in Castelnuovo di Conza. I sent out a message two weeks ago but have not had a reply. Gabriele's post was from 2005 so I don't think my message got through to Gabriele.
I have been doing a lot of research on the Cebello/Sibilia, etc. family in the US and New Jersey. The 6 children of Francesco and Katherine were baptized in Newark in two groups years after their birth. The first three were baptized as Cebello and the last 3 as Cibelli.

Findiing William Sibilia and his daughter Francesca at 179 8th ave is very important. That house would be right next door to 181. The even numbers, 180, would be on the other side of the street. I am going to see what I can find in the US about them. I checked Family Search and Lioni has films available which I will send for and see what I can find.
I agree with you that finding the 1910 census and Francesco's entry into the US is important. I am also going to work on that.

If the first message shows up you will have two versions of my reply.

Thank you for your help. That manifest on William Sibilia and Francesca is a great find and helps a lot. I will get back to you.

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 16 Feb 2012, 12:27

Hi Jack, no worry, it is just this your reply here!
It is a hard search.... !
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 16 Feb 2012, 17:50

jackdaisy wrote:Saunj, I just typed a message to you with information I have found since we last exchanged messages. When I finished I clicked on preview and it disappeared. I think it was erased because I can't find it anywhere. So you may get two answers to your post.
I started this posting on this site after I went on to Rootswb looking at my non-Italian family and also searched under Castelnuovo di Conza. There was a post from a Gabriele Bagarozzo who lives in Castelnuovo di Conza. I sent out a message two weeks ago but have not had a reply. Gabriele's post was from 2005 so I don't think my message got through to Gabriele.
I have been doing a lot of research on the Cebello/Sibilia, etc. family in the US and New Jersey. The 6 children of Francesco and Katherine were baptized in Newark in two groups years after their birth. The first three were baptized as Cebello and the last 3 as Cibelli.

Findiing William Sibilia and his daughter Francesca at 179 8th ave is very important. That house would be right next door to 181. The even numbers, 180, would be on the other side of the street. I am going to see what I can find in the US about them. I checked Family Search and Lioni has films available which I will send for and see what I can find.I agree with you that finding the 1910 census and Francesco's entry into the US is important. I am also going to work on that.

If the first message shows up you will have two versions of my reply.

Thank you for your help. That manifest on William Sibilia and Francesca is a great find and helps a lot. I will get back to you.

jhack

Jack abt Lioni microfilms better to wait...
I believe that the Frank mother maiden name was BARRASSO( also spelled BARASSO)... and also the Barrassos was in Newark, coming from Grottaminarda (Avellino province)

His Mother Amata Maria Bozasso. (Third letter very much in doubt. Looks like an American English written "r" but does not resemble any other "r" written on the form. Best guess is that it was a "z')

Barrasso/Barasso seeming very probable spell...
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 22 Feb 2012, 23:49

My great grandfather on my dads sides name is Francesco Sibilia. I've been serching for my family for years.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 23 Feb 2012, 21:54

Marisibilia. It is great to hear from you. Here are the basic details on our man. He was borm in Italy but we don't have positive proof where. Just some where in and around Naples. A "relative" named Bagarozza was from Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, Italy and Sibilia names are in that comune.
He arrived circa 1902 and married 1904 in Newark, NJ. His age on the marriage record is 23 (if he isn't lying)making his birth year 1881. He had 6 children by 1920 and he left home saying he had killed a man in Newark that day and had to leave. Nobody ever saw him again.
His wife and the six children grew up under the made up name of Cebello. None of the family used the name Sibilia.
That is the basic facts. I have done a lot of research on the family in the USA and have had a lot of help from Saunj. She has found out a lot of information for me. You can read her posts on this site. She found that an Alphonso Sibilia came to the US, to Newark and moved into a house next door to the address our Francesco gave on his marriage record.
It appears that a lot of the Sibilis's from around the Naples area came to Newark, NJ and the northeast region of the USA.
There very well could be a connection but I don't think what I wrote above will help you any. What do you know of him? How can I help you?

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 24 Feb 2012, 18:23

Dear Jack,
I searched so much and I no found a possible record;
no arrival no 1910 census
we know not the right surname spelling and it are various surnames very similars....


just I found records abt a Francesco Zibella born in San Prisco (Caserta province) abt 1881 and immigrated in 1900

First Name: Francesco
Last Name: Zibello (Zibella)
Ethnicity: Italy, Italian
Last Place of Residence: S. Prisco
Date of Arrival: Mar 26, 1900
Age at Arrival: 19y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Tartar Prince
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0023
final destination NY

the problem is that this Francesco Zibella in 1905 census, living with Michele Testa family in Manhattan, NY; neighbor: Fran Testa and wife Antonia( Antoinette)
Image

in 1906 he made another trip with Concetta sister
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passR ... 939030084&

Name: Francisca Zibella
Arrival Date: 29 Jan 1906
Birth Year: abt 1883
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race¬/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Prinz Adalbert

Image
and in 1906 the marital status : married

now nobody Frank Zibella/i/o never married in Manhattan or NY...
Frank Testa died
Testa Francesco 53 y Jan 25 1907 3193 (1907) Manhattan 1853 - 1854 1323142

and in 1910 Frank Zibella lived with Antoniette Testa nee Luisi, sister of Felicia wife of Michele Testa; pratically 2 sisters married 2 Testas; the Testas was no brothers, that surely...

In 1906 trip Frank declared that joining at brother in law Michele Testa in Manhattan; that is no true, because Felicia Luisi cannot be Frank Zibella sister....
Michele Testa marriage:
Groom's Name: Michele Testa
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Felice Luisi
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 29 Jun 1896
Marriage Place: Manhattan, New York, New York
Groom's Father's Name: Giuseppe
Groom's Mother's Name: Francesca Viska
Bride's Father's Name: Rosario
Bride's Mother's Name: Rosaria Manara
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01025-8

System Origin: New_York-ODM
Source Film Number: 1493565

Francesco Testa marriage

Groom's Name: Francisco Testa
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Antonia Luisi
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 04 Jun 1891
Marriage Place: Manhattan, New York, New York
Groom's Father's Name: Nieolo
Groom's Mother's Name: Tasualina Biona
Bride's Father's Name: Rosario
Bride's Mother's Name: Rosaria Marma
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:

Michele and Francesco Testa was no brothers, because they had different parents...

Now, in 1910 Frank ZIBELLA lived with Antoinette TESTA, but they NEVER married

1910 United States Federal Census about Francisco Ziabella
Name: Francisco Ziabella
[Francisco Zibelli]
[Francesco Ziabella]
[Francisco Ziorbella]
[Francisco Testa]
Age in 1910: 25
Birth Year: 1885
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1901
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Antonette Ziabella
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Francisco Ziabella
25
Antonette Ziabella
40
Criss Ziabella stepchild
19
[14]
Sula Ziabella ditto
10
Annie Ziabella
1 2/12
[1]

1920:
1920 United States Federal Census about Frank Cibilla
Name: Frank Cibilla
Age: 36
Birth Year: abt 1884
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1920: Manhattan Assembly District 18, New York, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1901
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Antonette Cibilla
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Home Owned: Rent
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Frank Cibilla
36
Antonette Cibilla
48
Harry Testa
24
Julia Testa
19
Anna Testa
11


1930 United States Federal Census about Frank Zabbla
Name: Frank Zabbla
[Frank Zibelli]
[Frank Zablla]
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1883
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Home in 1930: Manhattan, New York, New York
View Map

Marital Status: Married
Immigration Year: 1900
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Antonette Zabbla
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Occupation:

Education:

Military Service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace:
View image

Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Frank Zabbla
47
Antonette Zabbla
60

WWI darft registration card
NAME: Frank Zibelli
BIRTH: 21 Oct 1882 (probably, really, he was born in 1881)
RESIDENCE: Manhattan, New York, New York
OTHER: Manhattan City


I posted that, because no found YOUR Frank, Your Katie, or the children in 1910 census Newark, NJ

and I wish ask you, because the your Frank search is so difficult, and nobody evidence in the arrival or 1910 census... it is possible that he had also another family? That he worked in NY? and he back in Newark and just fathering the children?
You have the home address of Frank, on the children baptismal certificate?
Maybe by that we can know the right ward and to search in the Newark 1910 census better...
all the best,
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 26 Feb 2012, 04:47

Dear Saunj.
Thank you for all the informaton you posted.I have been very busy and haven't been able to do anything on the computer until now.
During rhe week I too tried to find Franceco on the 1910 census and his arrival on immigration records. His family could have missed being counted on that census. That is a definite possibility. My Parents missed the 1930 census. Many new arrivals were very uneasy about the census. Last week at the Family History center a man came in for the first time and asked how to get started on a search. He said he never was counted on the US census, he avoided it all the time.
I do know the streets where they were living during the 1904 to 1920 period and I also thought about browsing through the pages to see if they come up under a variation of the sibilia name. Our town library has films on this state or Ancestry of course. It will take some planning and a little time to get it done. I agree with you, it is the last best chance to find him.
I don't know if you have heard but the US 1940 census will be release by the government on 2 Apr 2012. I understand it has to be indexed but companies are all ready planning for it and I am sure we will get access to it before the year is out.
The Francesco-Antonette family is very interesting. Specially the 1920 census spelling. Our Fancesco was a shoemaker in Newark, NJ and a trip to New York City in those days was not difficult. He certainly could have been living a double life. He could have left his wife Katherine in Newark, took the train to New York City and not come back. It is a consideration.
My work is laid out for me, I am going to try a more organized search of Immigration records, he had to come in somewhere, sometime. Also browse the pages on the 1910 census. I am also going to send the the New Jersey Health Department for their oldest son's birth record. Because it was after 1900 for security reasons they will only release it to a family memeber who can send proof that he is really related. My nephew will do it for me. I want to see the surname spelling on the record and how it compares to the church Baptismal spelling. It will take a number of weeks before we get the copy. Researching this family is interesting. I'll keep in touch as I learn something.
Jack
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 26 Feb 2012, 12:49

Dear Jack,
abt 1910 census in Newark... the problem is that all Frank family members are not in.... no in all Essex county and ditto for NJ state census... as it is possible that a family of 5 members is no in a census... it is possible that for one member, but no a family of 5 members... surely... all is possible... but that is strange for me....
also the immigration record... the only that I found is Francesco Zibello(Zibella)... I cannot say that is your Frank, but however it is a possibility that he had another family.. and that can explain so many things.... Frank Zibella result married in 1906 trip, and single in 1900; but never married in NY between 1900 and 1906, as a well after 1906; never married at Antoinette...

however maybe by home addresses on the baptismal certificates, we can search better in 1910 Newark census...
all the best,
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 27 Feb 2012, 08:01

Hi jack,
Well I'm sorry to say I don't really know much about him. But I do have one piece of information that is going to throw a curve ball into your research. At the time that he dissapeared. He lead a double life. He actually had a second family. Hence myself. Lol he married a second woman....never devorced the first. I know of at least one child he had in his second marriage that would be my grandfather. His " second family" is the one that got the actually Sibilia name. I don't know either of his widest names the only child's name that he had I know is alphonse Sibilia.my grandfather. It was a huge secret in tge family for many years and something that is basically forbidden to be spojen about in our family. Now I was out casted in the family sence I was an infant because of my mother. So there's not alot tgat I know at all. But what I do know is I can't speak freely on subjects that most sibilia's can't and won't speak on. I do know that francesco never actually left newark. Most of my family from what I've found still lives in new jersey. I'm sorry I'm probably not much help. I don't honestly know a lot. But any exact info you want I'm sure i can get from my sisters. I hope to hear from you again.
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