Castiglione

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Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 16 Jul 2014, 08:44

I have been researching parish records from the province of Turin (available on microfilm from Family Search) :

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library

These films are organized such that each film typically contains records for a single year from multiple parishes/comunes, alphabetically arranged. One commune that is stated as included and on my list is Castiglione Torinese, but for some reason I am having trouble finding it in these films. I checked 3-4 (read and re-read all the Cs) and it isn't there. The description does indicate that some towns may be missing or out of order for certain years, but I have carefully checked several films and no luck. I did find a place named "Castiglione" in the section with Ps, but that must be a different town. Does anybody happen to know of any other name by which this commune may be called, or whether a second Castigione exists in Turin that has another word attached to the name (beginning with P)? No problems finding other communes on these films. Any advice/input much appreciated.
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Re: Castiglione

Postby PippoM » 16 Jul 2014, 13:36

Maybe I was not so accurate, but in the list you linked, I can only read "Cordova, frazione (hamlet) of Castiglione Torinese". According to the site of the Commune, Castiglione is composed of six "borgate" (Pedaggio Vecchio, Pedaggio, Rezza, San Rocco, Rivodora, Tetti Varetto) and two "frazioni" (Cordova and San Martino). So (according to the index), you would not find all the births in the Commune.
There are two more Castiglione's in Piemonte: Castiglione Falletto and Castiglione Tinella, both province of Cuneo. Maybe there was some more place named Castiglione that is no (more) Commune.
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Re: Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 16 Jul 2014, 18:25

Hi Pippo,

Thanks for the response. CT does appear in the list (though slightly out of order, between Cavour and Castagnetto), as well as Cordova (I did find Cordova on the films, just not CT). But that is a good point about some other place previously being named Castiglione. I didn't realize there were others in Piemonte - I only knew of a couple of towns by the same name elsewhere in Italy.

I am attaching the record of a couple of communes that are listed just before and just after (this) Castiglione on the films, in case anyone can read the actual names (I can't). The names clearly start with a P, and a place named "Castiglione" is immediately following one of those places on the films, and immediately preceding the other (names appear at the top left - if they appear at all. In this case, they do). Castiglione is also attached - last attachment. I would love to be able to solve this mystery!

I should add that these films area alphabetically arranged by location name, not parish name, which I realize would throw things off.
Attachments
ctown.jpg
ptown3.jpg
p2town.jpg
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Re: Castiglione

Postby PippoM » 17 Jul 2014, 14:43

I'm sorry, but there's something I can't understand...you say you can't find Castiglione
in the film, but then you say it's in the last attachment. Why do you think it is the wrong town?
Anyway, in the first (ctown) I read "..stiglione", but may be I'm influenced by what we're looking for; the second (ptown3) "Pracorsano" (Prascorsano actually exists today); the third (p2town) should be "Podivarino", ancient name of Poirino (it was a hard search, but I found it! 8) )
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Re: Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 17 Jul 2014, 17:35

Thank you for identifying those towns starting with P! Sorry if I wasn't clear. What is attached is a town apparently named "Castglione", but it's very unlikely (99%) to be the Castiglione Torinese I am looking for. As I mentioned, the record was placed among the Ps in the church book (film) - everything else is in alphabetical order, and I did not find any Castiglione among the Cs in dozens of films that I ordered and viewed. Second, looking at the surnames (in this "Castiglione" image that I attached) I do not see any that strike me as familiar from my earlier research in that town - this may be a coincidence, since there are only a few pages, but I think more likely it is not. So I posted here hoping somebody might know (1) which Castiglione this is, listed among towns that otherwise start with P and/or (2) whether the correct Castiglione Torinese (http://www.comune.castiglionetorinese.to.it) might be listed under some alternate, perhaps ancient name in the films, which would explain why I didn't find it in the C section. By the way, I realize the C is cut off, but I believe on a different page is was clear. In any case, that ending (..tiglione) which can bee seen seems very unique to the name "Castiglione" - nothing with a P would seem to fit (at least in my opinion, though my experience is limited)..
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Re: Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 18 Jul 2014, 00:30

I'm posting an update, since part of the mystery is now solved - my "Castiglione" image was actually "Pratiglione"! The first couple of letters were chopped off on my scans, and I assumed the word was Castiglione", but after checking a different film today I realized it was in fact Pratiglione, placed correctly among the Ps. However, the question about Castiglione remains. I cannot find that entry among the Cs on any of the films (there are many). So I wonder if that town has an ancient name that I am unaware of, or a different spelling (for example, the frazione Cordova is "Corduba" on the films, and there is the other example of "Podivarino" in the post above). Any ideas would be much appreciated.
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Re: Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 18 Jul 2014, 05:31

Looking at the Cs again, there is one location name that I cannot identify (on the list) - and the surnames seem to be familiar. Image with commune name is attached - could this be an old name for Castiglione? It seems very different, but not sure what other place it may refer to.
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img13.jpg
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Re: Castiglione

Postby PippoM » 19 Jul 2014, 11:38

Hi Jen
the image is rather blurred, but I read the name starts with "Castillion" followed by two more letters I can't tell. As the register is in Latin, I think this can be the right one! If I remember well from school, Italian sound "gli" does not exist in Latin.
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Re: Castiglione

Postby jkingb » 19 Jul 2014, 17:44

Pippo,

Thank you so much! I think that explains it! I looked again at another year, and the surnames are definitely consistent with CT (of course, all will be confirmed once I find a known couple). Some of the town names on these films are written in Italian and others (such as this one) in Latin. While I was aware that the Latin versions of names often involve small changes, especially the endings, I was not expecting something so significant (I have seen significant deviations in eastern european town names when written in Latin, but the Italian town names so far have seemed easy to identify even in their Latin forms). The word looks like "Castillienum", though I may be wrong because it is blurry (as is the original scan). However, I am now pretty certain it is Castiglione Torinese. The "num" may be a case change to the genitive? The missing "gli" is really what threw me off - not so much the ending. Thanks for explaining and for all your help!
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