Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

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Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 08 Apr 2007, 20:19

Hi!
I'm looking for the current name and/or location of the Parrochia S.Canciani i believe it's somewhere in the NE probably really close to the Slovenian or Austrian border..

Thanks in advance

Mauricio

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby wishyou » 08 Apr 2007, 21:54

San Cassiano (actually Cordignano, province of Treviso)?
San Canzian d'Isonzo (province of Gorizia)?

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby suanj » 08 Apr 2007, 22:05

mauricioom wrote:Hi!
I'm looking for the current name and/or location of the Parrochia S.Canciani i believe it's somewhere in the NE probably really close to the Slovenian or Austrian border..

Thanks in advance

Mauricio

when you say: PARROCCHIA you mean a church? Parrocchia is a church... and it don't exist a Canciani Saint (S.=San), almost until this moment... what you search with precision?
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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 08 Apr 2007, 22:16

Hi Suanj!
As you know already i'm in this quest to find the original place from where the MUCHA/MUHA family comes from, since about a month ago i've being in contact with a man who also descends from the MUCHA/MUHA family from Lokev Slovenia, and he just told me:

First MUHA mentioned in Lokev was in 1663. His name was Joannes MUCHA (born
12-may-1642 in parochia S.Canciani)


To wich i reponded tha if this place is what now is St. Kanzian (in slovenian: Å kocijan) but he told me:

MUHA's came from parrochia St.Kanzian, which is different than village St.Kanzian.

so i have have no real idea of wich place he's talking about! but he insisted in the PARROCHIA part, so... I don't know...
What do you make of his comments?

And Btw, thanks wishyou! those might come in handy!
Mauricio

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby suanj » 09 Apr 2007, 07:41

Hi, it will be different the village and the church, but in any case it seems that in the Å KOCJAN it was also a church with same name:
church St Cantianus (Sv. Kancijan):
source: http://www.zrs.upr.si/EN/Zaloznistvo/an ... premrl.pdf
THE CHURCH OF ST. CANTIANUS IN Å KOCJAN NEAR DIVA?A AND ITS INSCRIPTIONS
SUMMARY
The article deals with inscribed stones found in the Church of St Cantianus (Sv. Kancijan) in the village of Å kocjan,
on its exterior walls and the surrounding graveyard, with emphasis on fourteen epitaphs and tomb inscriptions. They
are mostly dedicated to the Nicoletti and Cerkvenik families and were carved out from 1560 to 1730. By reconstructing
the individual phases of the church building and by presenting a few personalities who had an impact on the
building history, the article examines the inscriptions from architectural and historical points of view. The
examination is based on scarce data preserved in parochial and other sources, on some other epigraphical sources,
professional literature and oral tradition. Considering the manner in which the stones have been carved and shaped
as well as several building inconsistencies and irregularities, the article forms the hypothesis that the Gothic predecessor
of the existing church – which housed the oldest epitaph from 1560 dedicated to Jakob Nicoletti – was larger
than it has been presumed so far. By comparing the tombstones and epitaphs, secondarily used as pavement stones
when the side aisles and a new presbytery were built (1613–1617), the author has determined approximate dates of
origin of the undated epitaphs and inscriptions. By referring to the data on the Nicoletti epitaph on the Postojna parish
church, it can be concluded that the tombstone of the Nicoletti family, nowadays incorporated in the floor in the
middle nave of the Å kocjan church, must have been created in 1645, which helped the author to solve the riddle
why there are two inscriptions dedicated to Jakob Nicoletti. That was also the time when the nave floor must have
been paved with symmetric stones, while the floor in the side aisles and presbytery must have been covered in the
thirties of the 18th century when the church was lavishly refurnished and endowed with new high altar and side altars.
--------------------
however DIVA?A is near Lokev....
another parish( Parrocchia) with same name church is in the Kranj town...
regards, suanj
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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 10 Apr 2007, 15:22

Hi Suanj! as always you're on top of things! I was just told that might be 99% sure the one near Divaca!... As it is been fairly documented you think that there would be someone who can help me find a Joannes (Zuane) Mucha AKA Goanni Muca born in Å kocjan May 12th 1642 son of a woman named Margaretha (don't know the father but it might be called Gregur Muka) or his kids Josephus (March 24th 1668) or Catharina (Nov 7th 1670)...

Could you help me translate this?:
Bratovšèina Sv.RT,1671: "Il Sign. Goanni Muca fiene un pezo di Campo qualle lascio amore Dei Alla Confraterna del Santissimo Sacramento il quad suo Padre che fu della Lucia Veueriza sicome fu gustato dal Supano Micula Mirousich et Gregorio Stopar Luca Crabar che il Sign. Goanni pagera anualmente alba Confraterna J 3:4, et alba Veuoriza in aiuto di Pranda J 1:16, et questo fu per ducati n.6 et per li anni decorsi che feniesa deto campo la Veuoriza non hamendo mai pagato il fito hano conoscito lidetti femini che viene pr. li decorsi amati doi, siche in tuto fano ducati 8."

Thanks Suanj!

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby suanj » 10 Apr 2007, 19:41

Hi, the trasnscriptions is no very good and some word is misspelled, and also the sense, in any case I don't understand what it means, but this is the translation:

Bratovšèina Sv.RT,1671: The mr Joanni ( right=John) muca have a part of land that he left, for God love, to S. Sacramento convent, that him prior/father( of convent , or Joanni's father?) that was( probably means son of.. ) of Lucia Veneriza (?), because was "tasted (?)" from Supano(? maybe superior) Micula Mirousich and Gregorio Stopar Luca Crabar, that Mr Joanni will pay annually to Convent, and to to Veneriza(?) in help of Pranda(?) J 1, 16 and this was fo ducati($) 6 for the years passed that it land came to Veneriza, it don't having never payed the lease, they have knew the above mentioned terms, that it comes the passed the its beloved, since in all it make ducati ($) 8.
maybe some other member can understand better the txt... regards, suanj
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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 15 Apr 2007, 21:47

Hi Suanj!
Thanks so much as always!
Yeah, it doesn't make a lot os sense ah?, for what i can tell is that Gioanni is leaving a piece of land to the Conventa and he'll pay them an anual fee to them... but the rest leaves me wondering...

It's really not clear at all, might be an old form of italian (or an italian dialect) or it might be just plain bad paleography...

Thanks again! ;-)

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby suanj » 16 Apr 2007, 20:03

yes Mauricio it seems so... I don't know if " fiene un pezo di Campo " is " tiene un pezzo di campo" as I translate, but so for sound, it could be right... regards, suanj
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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 20 Apr 2007, 20:18

Hi everyone! (Hi Suanj!!)

I found the original document, maybe this way you'll be abe to understaind it better as it has a fairly good quality!! Also, you might be able to detect errors made when it was first paleographed!

Image

hope you can ;-)
Besto of Regards!
Mauricio

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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby suanj » 20 Apr 2007, 20:22

your transcription is right...
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Re: Hi? i'm looking for Parrochia S.Canciani...

Postby mauricioom » 16 Jul 2008, 01:45

A relative just told me that he asked one of the Muhas still living in Lokev, and he told him that S. Canciani is as we suspected SKOCJAN! Yeeey!

Wanted to let you know ;-)
Mauricio


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