Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

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daveferro
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Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 09 Jul 2007, 04:16

My Grandfather Emilio Ferro's WWI Alien Registration Card has Ponzano Eterno listed as his last place of residence. There are two Ponzanos in Abruzzo, but nothing with Eterno. What does the name signify, other than it might be close to the heavens in the mountains?

My grandfather responded to questions when the card was filled out and the registrar was a second generation Italian-American and the son of one of my other grandfather's friends. He may have misunderstood what my grandfather said. Anyone have any answers?

Thanks very much,

Dave Ferro

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby ricbru » 09 Jul 2007, 13:06

I guess that is PONZANO DI FERMO now in the province of Ascoli Piceno.
ciao Riccardo

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby littleapple » 09 Jul 2007, 13:59

Another suggestion might be to check the province and area near Rome, as it is often referred to as la citta eterna. Eterna/eterno means forever.

Is there any chance that it was spelled wrong? I know there are places in Abruzzo that have a B instead of P, like Boiano, etc. I know my parents home town is Bonefro and there is another location called Venarfro that often gets mixed into the stories.

Just a suggestion,
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby suanj » 09 Jul 2007, 14:12

another suggestion could be that the town( village) is PONZANO hamlet of Teramo town, so the letters of Eterno could be inverted and mistaken, saying really could be PONZANO TERAMO...
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 10 Jul 2007, 05:26

Thank you all, I will look into these suggestions. The entry on the Alien Registration card is handwritten and I was not sure if it was Panzano or Ponzano, but Panzano is not in Abruzzo and Ponzano is. It definately says Eterno, but that was the registrar's interpretation. I thought it would be spelled Aeterno, as some other towns are.

In the US, only one name is allowed in a state, yet it seems on MapQuest, there are two Ponzanos on either side of Civitella del Tronto, unless one is in another province.

Like in Riccardo's post, I can see how Ponzano di Teramo sounds like Ponzano Eterno. And like littleapple, my relatives' pronunciation can really throw me off when trying to find words in the dictionary. They called a relative "IN-GREW-NOD", which years later I found meant "Incoranata"

Suanji might be on to something too: Here we have states divided into counties, and they into towns, which might have villages and hamlets, sometimes with the same names as the counties I need a more accurate map with the town boundaries.

Thanks,

Dave
Ferro (from Ferri), Capriotti(TE); De(i)Marzio, Nervina(o), Colucci, Gatto, Testa(CB); Basile(BA) ; Bianchi(AQ); Augello, Bissi, Iacono(AG); Pisano(), Impaglia () Friends looking also: Vivenzio (SA); LoPiccolo(PA)-seems to be Lopicolo originally

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby littleapple » 13 Jul 2007, 16:31

Dave, regarding the pronunciation I know excatly what you mean. The dialects of the different towns are also part of the uniquness but make it difficult to find later. I grew up speaking " bonefran" I didn't learn how to speak Italian until I was in high school and went to Italian school and then later to Florence to university. I am able to understand most of the dialect and was fluent with my grandparents so whenever I went back to bonefro I could speak to the people there and understand it. They have a lot of "sopranome" which are like nick names for families. I believe the Di Marzo's from my family were the "mezzanotte" midnight, and the Maucieri's were Madonne, on my mom's side the ciampanelli family was the colle da mure. These sopranome helped them to differeniate the different families with the same last name, they all new them as the nick name. The dialects can have words that are way off of the traditionale italian spelling, ie: si is yes in italian, in bonefran it is usually sheena, sedga is what I thought a chair was until I learned it was sedia. Although Bonefran is similar to the dialects of Naples it has it's own style as does some of the other towns near it like Santa Croce and Rotello. I personally have not been to Ripabottoni but i am sure it has it's own too. You mentioned Sant Ellia , I know my Dad has mentioned family that either came fromthere or went there. I will talk to him some more about it.
Good luck and keep in touch.
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 14 Jul 2007, 06:57

Melina,
Great information there; I will show it to my mother who keeps saying she doesn't speak good Italian. Now I know it is really different Italian that is special to the hometowns.

It's wonderful that you were able to go to Italy and learn there. We are getting more away from our roots and now we here are rushing to reconnect. We do have relatives in Montreal (Salvatore Testa) who called to say they are going to Italy for a visit. Because of the distance from here in central NY, we do not see them often, not for at least 15 years now, when they came for a visit. My mother tells of the time in Montreal when Sully referred to an ashtray and she had a completely different word for it, just like you said.

I really like the explanation of the family nicknames. It makes sense and also perhaps how family names could evolve, like D'Angelo etc. Even going back to name origins as to location or occupation. The Ferros were probably near an iron mine or worked with iron. Wonder what other languages influenced and how much: Oscan, Latin, Greek- no K, but Ch for the sound.

Did have 3 years of Latin and 3 of French in HS (Catholic after Grammar School also Catholic), which helps some. Did you take Italian as an elective or was it part of a required course? Here many are taking Spanish and in SF one of my friend's daughter took Chinese. I always ask when given the choice of English or Spanish on a computer gadget why Italian is not offered. This gets some stares.

Almost 3 am again. Answered an e-mail from my daughter and now I'm exhaussted.
Thanks again! It's great very thought provoking. I'm going to dream of Italy and ancestors with nicknames for surnames as well as first names.

Dave
Ferro (from Ferri), Capriotti(TE); De(i)Marzio, Nervina(o), Colucci, Gatto, Testa(CB); Basile(BA) ; Bianchi(AQ); Augello, Bissi, Iacono(AG); Pisano(), Impaglia () Friends looking also: Vivenzio (SA); LoPiccolo(PA)-seems to be Lopicolo originally

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby littleapple » 14 Jul 2007, 14:42

Ah, John I am very grateful to my parent for teaching me Bonefran, I am fortunate that both of them are from there. The irony is that my mother came to Canada when she was 11 and my father came with his family when he was 19, in such a small town they met here in Canada and married. So having both sides speak bonefran when I was born ( 1st grandchild) I learned it before I learned english. Then my parents decided to bring us back in 1980, it was awesome. To see it with them both and hear the stories of their homes, families and friends. I was only 14 but it made an impression on me. I came back and took Italian as an elective at night outside of my regular high school courses and then after 1st year unniversity I enrolled in the university for foreigners in Florence for a 4 month course. I married a non italian so my italian gets rusty, I try to practice whenever I can and I have purchased novels to read to help me keep it up. I try to teach my daughter too but I worry that she will not be as interested or be connected like we were.

We have a lot of family in montreal too, there are a lot of people from Bonefro there. I am in Calgary and there is a group here not a huge group but fairly large community. Unfortunately I see many of them only at funerals.

I remeber now that there is a sopranome for testa and it is testa ferma I believe for a colabella family. I will keep in touch if i get more info. Where in New York are you?
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 15 Jul 2007, 07:21

Melina,
I just left a message on another genealogy thread. I feel bifurcated. Actually I said there that the Testa cousins in Montreal went to Italy for a visit and I would ask if they know your family.

What a great story here as there. You are very lucky to learn and to go to Italy to see the hometowns and meet the family. I married a girl who is part English and Polish; we divorced but our daughter has a 7 year old and now I am getting closer to them (the children).

We resisted learning Italian when we were young; it wasn't American. The main phrases were the usual: hurry up, slow down, wait, eat, close the door, etc. We lived with my (foster) mother's mother (my great aunt) but we called her granma just like her sister. As I said over in Amici Over the Ocean, whenever I heard my name in the middle of an Italian paragraph, esp. if granma was talking, I ran to the "Chay-woots" tree - what they called the mulberry tree out back - and wouldn't come down until they told me what I had done. Granma had a sing song way of talking, sometimes loud, which sounded like anger, but turned out to be hearing loss, which I know about now.

Now it's 3:20 am and I have to get to bed.

Thanks so much for your messages,

Dave
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 21 Jul 2007, 06:16

A book on the Roman World shows an Aeternus River; this turns out to be the Eterno River that runs through Pescara.

Do not know if this relates to my grandfather's papers, as it is not near Civitella or Ponzano, but you never know.

Dave
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby Emmy » 22 Jul 2007, 20:19

Dave I noticed reading through your posts that 'littleapple' said that you had mentioned Sant'Elia but I couldnt find where you had mentioned this town. The reason I'm asking is because this is the town I'm searching at the moment and I have quite a number of Micro films on extended loan so if there was anything you wanted looked up I would glady do it for you if the dates match the films I have.

The films I have are for Sant'Elia Fiumerapido in the province of Frosinone, Lazio

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby littleapple » 22 Jul 2007, 22:06

HI Emmy,
I am "littleapple" or Melina, I was wondering if you come across anyone with the last name Maucieri I would be very interested. I am waiting for films from the town of Bonefro which isn't too far from your research area. It is in Molise but I know many of the people in Bonefro used to go to Frosinone to farm.
I am also working on the last name Martinelli which I believe is my great great grandmother, her name would have been Rosa and she married Matteo, I believe the dates of birth would be around 1866 or so. But if you see any of those names I would be most grateful to you for the heads up.
I have ordered 6 films which should arrive in early august. they are for Bonefro Campobasso, if you need any information let me know. What name are you working with? Molise became a region much later it was often referred to as Abruzzi in many documents.
Let me know if I can help at all and thank you in advance for any information you can provide.
Melina
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby daveferro » 23 Jul 2007, 06:22

Emmy,

Just found your post as you mentioned in Amici. The town where the Testas come from is Sant' Elia a Pianisi in Compobasso, Molise. Someone reported that the Testas came there around 1825; amazing news to us.

Melina's Bonefro is very close to it and Ripabottoni where the Nervinas come from, and also Coletorto where the De Marzios are from.

Can you get files on Molise, to help Melina and myself?

Thanks

Dave
Ferro (from Ferri), Capriotti(TE); De(i)Marzio, Nervina(o), Colucci, Gatto, Testa(CB); Basile(BA) ; Bianchi(AQ); Augello, Bissi, Iacono(AG); Pisano(), Impaglia () Friends looking also: Vivenzio (SA); LoPiccolo(PA)-seems to be Lopicolo originally

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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby suanj » 23 Jul 2007, 07:44

it seem that arrived in USA in the 1914 by 1920 census:

1920 United States Federal Census
about Emilie Ferrie
Name: Emilie Ferrie
Home in 1920: Auburn Ward 5, Cayuga, New York
Age: 27 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Adolarota
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1914
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 337
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Emilie Ferrie 27
Adolarota Ferrie 35
Frank Ferrie 6
Tony Ferrie 4 6/12
Herman Ferrie 2 8/12

Dantio Isdora 41
Frank Bapali 28
Bardo Marino 22

maybe could be helpful for to find the ship's manifest and to know the right birthplace spelling, regards, suanj
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Re: Ponzano Eterno in Abruzzo: Eterno means ?

Postby Emmy » 23 Jul 2007, 18:29

Hi Dave and Melina
I'm not sure if its the same Sant'Elia we're talking about - I know there are two towns named Sant'Elia. The one I'm talking about is Sant'Elia Fiumerapido which is situated between Cassino and Atina.
Is this the same area you are researching in?

I looked up the LDS records and found this for Molise-Compobasso
This is the link
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... o+civile++

This is another link
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library ... ord=Molise
Maybe there is something here that will be of help to you.

Melina I'm hoping to get to the LDS next week and I'll check to find out if there is any mention of Martinelli I'm sure I have birth acts covering 1866 for Sant'Elia but it will only have the birth acts for this comune and not for the other comunes nearbye. But I will check it out.

Dave what names and dates are you still searching for?

Emmy


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