place in Italy

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mimifo
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place in Italy

Postby mimifo » 19 Jan 2008, 07:04

I would like to know where in the italian riviera was Finale de la Raya in 1700.

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Aether
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Re: place in Italy

Postby Aether » 20 Jan 2008, 00:25

mimifo,

Are you asking about a "geographical", or a "political" frontier between Italy and France in the 1700s? Which treaties were in effect? Period covered? Geographical areas covered?

Also, considering, again, that Italy did not exist as a political unit are you asking about the frontier between the Duchy of Savoy and its neighbors?
Any other possibilities? Please, clarify your request.

Aether
"Fiori di grano.
Amici piu' di prima saremo;
Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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mimifo
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Re: place in Italy

Postby mimifo » 20 Jan 2008, 02:07

mimifo wrote:I would like to know where in the italian riviera was Finale de la Raya in 1700.

Thank you Aether for your help.
My greatgrand father was born in 1732 in Finale de la Raya, Genova, Italy.
His father was born in Finalborgo and his mother was born in Finale Ligure.
So maybe is a political designation?

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misbris
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Re: place in Italy

Postby misbris » 20 Jan 2008, 02:43

Hi,

From your other posts, I can see that you have done much research already. But I thought that it was interesting that Finalborgo is a part of Finale Ligure.

http://www.italyworldclub.com/liguria/s ... ligure.htm

I may be off the mark completly, but could it be Finale de la Rey, and refer to a time Finale Ligure was under the control of the Spanish king?

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Aether
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Re: place in Italy

Postby Aether » 20 Jan 2008, 06:48

misbris,

I believe that the word "Raya' means frontier, "confine" in Italian , and "Finale" means the proper delimitation, but it may also means "finale" = "end". Some frontiers were abolished by treaties, wars, occupation, incorporation, and so on.
Now "mimifo" mentions "Ligure", so there is a Riviera Ligure, part of the Republic of Genoa, Savona?
Finalborgo - I believe it refers to the last village at the border - "Raya". Must check under names of villages near the "Raya".
Also, the word "Raya" is used in Spain and Portugal.
It requires more research...Significant number of jewish expatriates from Spain and Portugal ( Isabel and Ferdinand reign) settled in that area.
Aether

P.S.(best "pesce in cartoccio" is to be eaten at Riviera Ligure) :oops:
"Fiori di grano.

Amici piu' di prima saremo;

Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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Aether
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Re: place in Italy

Postby Aether » 20 Jan 2008, 07:13

misbris,

Just came to my mind that I have a framed old map of that area showing clearly the "Raya" between the "Condado de Nizza" and "Parte de Genova", and the Riviera from Ventimiglia, Menton and on.

There is great number of names of villages by the sea, and inland in very small print but clear.

Now it is about 1 a.m. for me, so tomorrow I will write down some of names for you, hope it will help as a starter...

Aether :wink:
"Fiori di grano.

Amici piu' di prima saremo;

Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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Aether
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Re: place in Italy

Postby Aether » 20 Jan 2008, 19:55

misbris,

Now you take from here! I am not near any relevant archives this month, and this is all I can pass on- as a starting point.
My old map from late 1500's lists many villages, all with old Latin names.

Now, I have checked an updated source from ALBENGA to SAVONA which covers Ceriale, Borghetto Santo Spirito, Loano, Borgio Verezzi, FINALE LIGURE, and many others to Noli, Sportono to Savona.
This area suffered many political upheavals and likely archives were destroyed. A good source I believe will be the Basilica di San Biagio in FINALE LIGURE.
However, it will be good idea to check other small parishes in the villages by the sea and inland .

HISTORY.
From the 1100, on was part of the Marchesato Del Carretto, from the XIV-XV centuries site of the struggles against Genova and the forced building of Castelfranco causing the semi-destruction of the BORGO.

Afterwards was under the protection of the DUCATO DI MILANO and of the IMPERO (Austrian).

In 1598 was sold by Sforza Andrea Del Carretto to SPAIN , and in 1748 given up to the REPUBLICA DI GENOVA (Trattato di Aquisgrana)

In FINALE MARINA the Basilica of S. Giovanni Battista and in FINALE PIA the Chiesa Abbaziale di Santa Maria could be good sources of archival material.
It was not unusual to have archival material removed and sent to the new administrative main archives. From churches archives may go to CURIA, and other ecclesiastic sites.

Interesting that the Del Carrettos ended up in Calabria, faithful to their lack of administrative talent did not do well there either. See Pignone Del Carretto.

Aether
"Fiori di grano.

Amici piu' di prima saremo;

Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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Re: place in Italy

Postby Aether » 20 Jan 2008, 22:32

mimifo,
I have collected some geographical and historical information as subsidy for a more complete archival search.

Also the "Marrano", "Converted" and "New Christians archives from Spain and Portugal contain information on the migrations from those countries to other areas in Europe and Americas.

I have passed to "misbris" what I have. She will be able to help you further!

I am at the moment snowed in at -30 C - in the Canadian Rockies- no archives! No ski either!

Aether :cry:
"Fiori di grano.

Amici piu' di prima saremo;

Amici piu' di prima da lontano".

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mimifo
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Re: place in Italy

Postby mimifo » 21 Jan 2008, 03:22

Thank you all for the information. Yes, I think "de la Raya" is just a political designation for Finale Ligure, because that was from a birth record.
I don't know if the churches will have any records older than 1640. I bebelieve they were destroy in some war.

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Re: place in Italy

Postby suanj » 21 Jan 2008, 11:23

well Finale Ligure as town is only from 2 jan 1927, and born from the union of this hamleths: Finale Pia, Finale Marina, Finalborgo... so maybe your Finale de la Raya could be Finale Pia in italian...
Visit my website:
ITALIAN ORIGIN SEARCH

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Re: place in Italy

Postby misbris » 22 Jan 2008, 01:00

No matter what it is called, it has one of the most beautiful coastlines I have ever seen.
Sorry Aether, I would rather be on the beach at Varigotti. 8)


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