Looking for Forte, Matassa, Di Adamo, Gizzi, Capocci, Crolla

[Forte]

Have just started working on my family tree and I have managed to get it back on my father's side to Domenico Forte and Francesca Matassa. They had a daughter called Maria Teresa Forte, who married Giovanni Forte. Their son Alfonso Francesco Forte was my grandfather. He was born on 5 Feb 1880 and died on 12 Mar 1958. My grandmother was Libera Filomena Di Adamo. Her parents were Vincenzo Di Adamo and Maria Giuseppa Forte. Most of these lived in Mortale, Casalattico, Italy, which is where my father, Aquilino (Alfred) was born.

On my mother's side, I am trying to trace the Gizzi family from S. Giuseppe near Picinisco. My grandmother's grandparents were Agostino Gizzi and Leonarda Capocci, born in 1864 and both buried in S. Martino, Pisa. Also looking for the roots of my great grandmother, Addolarata Crolla. Her siblings were Celeste, Loreto and Domenico. She is also buried in S. Martino.

Thanks,

Paul Forte

[Marisa6]

Hi Paul

We are cousins! Your ancestor Maria Teresa Forte is the older sister of my great great grandmother Caterina Antonia Forte. I am going to go and dig out a large and dusty file and get back to you later. One thing puzzles me. Are you sure that Domenico and Francesco are Giovanni's parents. I have them as Maria's parents. As far as I can see Giovanni's parents are Vincenzo Forte and Alessandra Cafolla.

Right, I'm going to get a large coffee and get digging!

Marisa

[Forte]

Hi Marisa,

You are right - They were Maria Teresa's parents. I'll change my original message and look forward to hearing more from you.

Thanks,

Paul

[Marisa6]

Ok – starting with the children of Domenico Antonio Forte and Francesca Matassa – (you may have these)

Maria Teresa Forte born 14 Jul 1841
Benedetto Forte born 31 May 1844, died 31 Dec 1852
Celeste Forte born 16 Jan 1849, died 05 Oct 1849
Caterina Antonia Forte born 31 Jul 1855, died between 1943 – 1945 at the hands of the nazis. She was my great great grandmother.


Domenico Antonio’s parents were Benedetto Forte and Luigia Morelli. Benedetto was born around 1768, and died 17 Mar 1816. Luigia was born around 1770, and died 22 Nov 1820. Their children were

Celeste Forte bc 1792 died 03 Dec 1831 sp Caterina Cirefice
Anna Rosa Forte bc 1793 died 18 Oct 1858
Angela Forte bc 1796 19 Jan 1857
Giovanni Forte bc 1796 sp Maria Giuseppa Fusciardi
Anna Teresa Forte bc 1799 sp Cristofaro Magliocco
Salvatore Forte bc1805 sp Caterina Magliocco
Domenico Antonio Forte bc 1808 sp Francesca Matassa

Benedetto Forte’s parents were Crescenzo Forte and Caterina Di Lucia. Benedetto was born around 1768, and died 17 Mar 1816. There is a possible death for Crescenzo Forte on 8th Jan 1811 at aged 62 years – but I stress it’s a possible death. It may not be him. If it was him, then his parents would be Antonio Forte and Maddalena Marsella.

Going back to Francesca Matassa – her parents were Crescenzo Matassa, bc 1783, and Maria Giuseppa Forte, bc1785 (possibly died 06 Aug 1826). They married 19 Sep 1811 – so its nearly their anniversary! (If the death I have is correct then Maria Giuseppa’s parents were Donato Forte and Cecilia Morelli, and Cecilia’s Domenico Morelli and Palma Macari – but that is me getting carried away! Treat with caution!!)

Winding all the way back to Giovanni Forte’s parents – I have them as Vincenzo Forte and Alessandra Cafolla. Its them I need the dusty files for. First I have to go and give my son his medication and shots and get him into bed.

Speak later

Marisa

[Forte]

Thank you so much. I didn't have any of this information, other than a copy of Maria Teresa's birth certificate.

How did you find all of this out? Were all of these from Mortale?

I have all the descendants of Maria Teresa and Giovanni, if you would like this information. Do you know how Maria Teresa died, because I have a vague recollection that one of my relatives also died in a nazi camp south of Rome.

Would love to know exactly how we are related, so some time would appreciate the descendants of your great great grandmother.

Thanks,
Paul

[Marisa6]

Hi Paul

My great great grandmothers descendants are as follows;-

Caterina Antonia Forte married Celeste Antonio Forte (son of Filippo Forte and Maddalena Fusco). Their children were

Domenico Forte c1882 sp Maria Forte
Marco Forte 13 Apr 1885 sp Serafina Giustina Marcantonio (Perth)
Carmen Forte c1888 sp 1 Caterina ? sp 2 Linda ?
Pasqualina Forte c1891 sp Vincenzo Forte (Belfast?)
Maria Forte 29 Mar 1894 sp Raffaele Forte (Hastings?)

My great grandfather is Marco. His daughter – my grandmother – is 91 now, and although a bit frail, she is as sharp as a tack.

I don’t know how Maria Teresa died. I only have vague stories of how Caterina died. There are various rumours. One is that she died in a prisoner of war camp in Sora. Another is that a group of elderly villagers were shot by the Nazis for being British sympathisers as they had children living in the UK. (This was ironic as Caterina’s son was interned in the UK for being an enemy alien.) Their bodies were found by the roadside by other villagers and taken back to Mortale for burial. Caterina and Celeste are buried together. There are no names on their grave, but only their pictures.

Yes – all of these records are from the Mormons microfilms for Casalattico and its surrounding hamlets – including Mortale.

I’m having a hard time finding information about Vincenzo Forte and Alessandra Cafolla. There is a couple of the right age called Vincenzo Forte and Santa Cafolla. Does anyone know if Santa might have been a diminutive for Alessandra?

There are no Di Adamos at all that I can find in Casalattico. I don’t know where that name might come from.

As luck would have it I also have Capoccis and Gizzis coming out of my ears. As you say they are from Picinisco. The best place to get info about them is from Michel Vacca here - http://www.picinisco.net/
He is friendly with the Priest in Picinisco and has been working on the records for many years now. If anyone has those records, he has.

Where are you? I'm hazarding a guess you are somewhere in the UK or Ireland. I'm in Scotland. I would love to know your tree too.

Hope that helps

[Forte]

Hi Marisa,

THank you again for all this information.

Santa is a diminutive of Alessandra, so these might be the right people.

Here goes on my side of the family.....

Maria Teresa Forte and Giovanni had 2 children together, Vincenzo (not much known about him but he went to US) and my grandfather, Alfonso Francesco Forte (b. 5 Feb 1880, d. 12 Mar 1958). I think Maria Teresa also had 2 other children, called Vincenza and Marianna (aka Marietta). Marietta used to live in our house in Mortale until she died in the 1970s.

Alfonso married Libera Filomena Di Adamo and had several children.

Giovanni Valentino Forte (b. 13.02.08, d. 12.12.88)
Aquilino Pietro Domenico Forte (my father, b. 19.10.09, d. 30.06.93)
Annino Vincenzo Forte (b. 26.07.13, d. 11.12.86)
Carmine Forte (b.05.05.15, d. 20.11.99)
Teresa Maria Forte (b. 1.1.18, d. 20.10.2004)
Mariannina Forte (b. 28.06.23, living in Bournemouth)

The family emigrated to Kelso in the 1920s, were naturalised in 1928 and moved down to Brighton after that, where they were until they died - except my father, who emigrated to Pisa in 1990.

Dad (Aquilino) married Carmela Maria Gizzi and they had Anthony (b. 20.9.49) and Rosina (b. 27.05.51). Carmela died in 1958 and dad re-married my mother, Romanita Rossetti (b. 9.08.36). They had me! - Paul Martin Forte (b.28.10.62).

I have details of all my cousins as well - do you want them?

What about your line?

I think that I met Maria Forte (b. 29 Mar 1895) some years ago in Mortale. I think she was looked after by someone called Celeste and that she has connections with someone called Ralph Forte who lives in Hastings.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Marisa6]

Hi Paul

Ok – children of Vincenzo Forte and Alessandra/Santa Cafolla

Clementina FORTE – 27 Nov 1820
Maria Teresa FORTE – 16 Jul 1825 (sp Luigi Antonio FORTE 4 Jun 1850)
Giovanna Rosa FORTE – 19 May 1829 (sp Francesco Antonio FUSCIARDI 14 May 1853)
Domenicantonio FORTE – 17 Mar 1832 died 27 Mar 1832
Caterina FORTE – 20 Oct 1834 (sp Luigi FORTE 27 Oct 1859)
Giovanni FORTE – 3 Jul 1837 (sp Maria Teresa FORTE 26 Nov 1861)
Lea FORTE – 10 Jan 1840

Vincenzo was alive in 1850 when his daughter Maria Teresa married, but dead by 1853 when Giovanna married. There is only one Vincenzo Forte who died in Casalattico, and he died right in the middle of the timeframe. He died on 3 Mar 1852 at 56 years old, giving a rough birthdate of 1796. His parents were Giovanni Forte and Dorotea/Teodora di Leone. (The confusion over the names arises because my poor cousin, who copied all of this out, has two different mothers names for the marriage and death - but I'm sure they are the same person.)

Vincenzo and Santa married 17 Jul 1820. He was 24, she was 22. Interestingly that was rather less than 9 months before the first baby was born! That happens all the time with my Scots ancestors, but is much more unusual with my Italians. Someone else will be able to tell you if ‘shotguns’ were common or not, and what was likely to have been written about them! Santa’s parents were Costantino Cafolla and Caterina Forte. All four parents were alive at the time of the wedding.

Costantino Cafolla died on 23 Dec 1854 at the age of 88. His parents were Giacomo Cafolla and Camilla Rosato.

I can’t find a death listing for Caterina Forte but she was born around 1776 judging from her age when some of her children were born.

I am descended through the Marco Forte and Serafina Marcantonio on my last email. Their daughter Jolanda Virginia Muriel Forte (1917) married Serafino Fortunato Visocchi (1902-1992). Their son Fortunato (1938) is my father

Ob boy - my brain is a bit boggled now. I'm off to bed.

Speak to you in the morning

Marisa

[Marisa6]

I forgot to say that the Ralph (Raffaele) Forte in Hastings was the husband of Maria Forte (yes - both Forte. There is a lot of that in my family ) I have a photo of them somewhere. I must ask Grandma about them next time I see her.

Marisa

[Forte]

Thanks, Marisa. Very useful again.

I think Maria was known as Mariuccia. I remember her well from Mortale and she has a grandson called Ralph, married to Elizabeth, in Hastings.

Was Celeste Antonio married twice? I think he might have had a son or grandson called Camillo, because I know his family. Camillo was married to Annunziata.

Do you know anything about a Maria Giuseppa Forte with parents Pancrazio Forte (b. 5/3/1851) and Madalena Cecchini (b. 15/12/1858)? I think she had two brothers, Vincenzo, who was mayor of Casalattico for a while, and Giuseppe, who died on the Arandora Star.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Marisa6]

Hi Paul

My goodness its a small world!

Now - as far as I know Maria and Ralph had a son called Antonio. I guess he called his son after his father.

I don't know if Celeste Antonio was married twice. Its definitely a possibility as his first child with Caterina would have been born when he was about 31 years old. I would be fascinated to know!

Unfortunately the list of births I have only goes up to 1850 - so I don't have any records of Pancrazio (unusual name!) and Maddalena. This may, however, be about to solve a mystery for me. On the list of 'caduti' from the Arandora Star, Giuseppe Forte is listed as coming from Belfast. As far as I know, most of the Belfast Forte's are descended from Mariuccia's sister Pasqualina, and her husband Vincenzo (also Forte!) Perhaps this Vincenzo is the brother of Giuseppe and Maria. I don't know his parents names, and so if they are Pancrazio and Maddalena. I've never had much success getting certificates out of Chichester St - but I might be moved to try again.

Marisa

[Forte]

I'm being sent a whole load of Belfast Forte stuff in the post tomorrow. Will investigate further and let you know!

Paul

[Marisa6]

Ooooh - now I'm excited!

Vincenzo and Pasqualina had a whole squad of kids. 9 that I know of, and probably some more besides. There was Pasqualina, Louie, Remo, Esther, Frank, Maria, Marguerita, Caterina and Rosa.

Have you been here - http://www.edmundforte.co.uk/index2.html ? Its quite a good site for Forte related stuff, and a good old trip down memory lane!

Marisa

[Forte]

Hi Marisa,

Could you possibly please check the birth date of Giovanni Forte. Could it be 1827 instead of 1837? He was the one that married Maria Teresa. I think she may have died on 3/5/1921 in Casalattico and he may have died on 3/4/1905 but I'm not sure. Did they only have two children?

Best wishes,

Paul

[Marisa6]

Hi Paul

I've double checked and its definitely 1837. Is it an age on a death certificate that is causing confusion? They can sometimes be a bit out as people in those days often didn't know exactly how old they were, or sometimes the informant of the death wasn't sure of the age. If all of the other information - ie parents names, spouses name, etc are correct it is probably the same person.

The births I have only go up to around 1850, so unfortunately I don't know how many children they had - but I would have thought it likely they would have more than two.

Marisa