Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

[misbris]

Hi,

Glad you had time to digest all the info. I looked at Filomena manifest again. That is the correct spelling. All of the other variations are americanizations or mistakes. (You can't trust the census records for spelling )

Here are all the possible records for Bernardino (not necessarily the correct spelling) Open them, look them over and narrow them down. I think numbers 5 and 8 are your best possibilities. What do you think?

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB ... ECTION=asc

Perhaps someone else can help with the census records because the family seems to vanish.

Maybe vj, biff and Laura can help.

[misbris]

Have you used this site at all for NY records? Staten Island is Richmond County.

http://www.italiangen.org/default.htm

[allitalian1]

I agree with you, Misbris. It seems that number 5 could be him. It matches more closely than the others. I tried to search on Italiangen.org, but all searches advise there is no match. Further, I am sure that the changes in her first name's spelling are about mistakes or americanization. I believe Filomena is correct.

I appreciate any help vj, Biff or laura can offer.

John; I appreciate the forward to familysearch.org. Each time I get to the film area, I cannot figure out how to properly use it. Am I supposed to be able to view the films on-line?, or where do I go for that?

Thanks to all, again. I will continue with this and hope to have additional information soon.

John

[allitalian1]

In looking at familysearch.com, I have located Bernardino Venditti. Please note it comes up under Bernardino, not Berardino. It is a death record I found with the date of January 1980 as the date of death and a birth date of September 25, 1902.

Do you think the manifest which shows Berardino is just another poorly spelled name? I believe the name to be Bernardino as the death info verifies it and as the Dept. of Welfare document dated 1928 states that.

The troubling thing is that the manifest shows him as 7 in 1904. With that in mind, he would have been born in 1897, not 1902 as stated in these documents. The Dept. Of Welfare document states he is 25 in 1928, so it makes sense that he was born in 1902.

Now, I am wondering if this manifest is correct. Any thoughts about this?

John

[allitalian1]

On jewishgen.org, there is a Bernardo Venditti with a stated birthdate of 1897. The manifest states he is going to northern, new York, nowhere neard Staten Island. He died in Michigan in 1979. I do not believe this to be him, but do believe the other listing on familysearch.org, which states Bernardino to be him. If you type in the search to Bernardino Venditti, you will note that only two matches come up.

Therefore, I no olonger feel that the manifest for the Prinz Oscar, dated February 23, 1904 is him.

Wow, now where do we go? Am I making sense?

John

[JohnArmellino]

Do you think the manifest which shows Berardino is just another poorly spelled name?

Berardino and Bernardino are two forms of the same name. In addition, you will often see Berardo or Bernardo. In the early 1700s, the name was often spelled Belardino.

John; I appreciate the forward to familysearch.org. Each time I get to the film area, I cannot figure out how to properly use it. Am I supposed to be able to view the films on-line?, or where do I go for that?

You cannot view the films online. The films can be rented and viewed at the Family History Centers operated by the LDS. Find the one nearest to you and visit it. I'm sure the attendents will help you. In the film area, you can find the number of the film that you want to rent. In my FHC, it costs $5.50 to rent the film for one month, $5.50 more for an additional two months, and $5.50 to extend it indefinately. In your case, you might want to rent two films, #1807962 & #1807963, which would cover births (Nati) from 1885-1910. With luck, you might find margin notes about a marriage between Filomena and Berardino. Or you might at least find a birth for a Berardino.

[misbris]

John,

Let me ask you a question. Are you sure that the B Venditti you found a death record for is the correct person? I see 2 death records for CA. I don't want to confuse you more, but what real documentation do you have of Berardino's (?) death?

BERNARDINO VENDITTI 25 Sep 1902 Jan 1980 95472 (Sebastopol, Sonoma, CA) 94070 (San Carlos, San Mateo, CA) 546-26-0996 California

BERARDINO VENDITTI 02 Mar 1894 Sep 1969 95817 (Sacramento, Sacramento, CA) (none specified) 558-46-0597 Californi

[allitalian1]

Misbris:

I believe the correct person to be the Bernardino that died on September 25, 1902. I believe this as I viewed a death record and it stated "mothers maiden name" Testa.

Further, on a Dept. of Welfare form in 1928 he is listed as being 25. That matches. I also found that he married Philomena on January 6, 1924.

I will forward that death record to you once I can find it.

Thanks for the help!

[allitalian1]

Misbris:

Made an error here, sorry. The death record for John A. Venditti, my fathers brother said Testa was his mothers maiden name. My former reply that this was Bernardino's information was my error.

I am learning that when you do this for too long a period, you start seeing double.

[allitalian1]

Misbris:

That information on John A. venditti is on ancestry.com. This is Bernardino'ss son, guaranteed. It says he was born on March 16, 1925 and died March 19, 1962 in Los Angeles. Mothers maiden name listed on this as Testa. It has to be his brother. On the Dept. of Welfare statement in 1928, Philomena lists John A. is 3 and Antoinetta as 2.

This appears to match perfectly.

[allitalian1]

Any thoughts, Misbris.

[misbris]

Hi,

I think you are correct about John. I just don't understand why we can't find any of the Venditti children in the 1930 census. What happened to Fillomena and Antonetta?

[allitalian1]

Hi Misbris:

It seems that Bernardino abandoned the family in August 1927. I have that information on the Dept. Of Welfare paperwork. The point here is that Filomena may have elected to stay a Testa, not continue with the Venditti name. It seems that her children John A. Venditti used his fathers last name, but we do not know about Antonetta as we cannot locate her. Perhaps, that is why Filomena died a Testa (of course, if this is her)

Filomena appears to have passed away on June 22, 1993 and it states her birth date as January 14, 1908. I found this death record on familysearch.com. Her ss number was listed as 076-12-4928. I am pretty sure this is her, although the birth date is off a bit as compared to the manifest. Further, on ancestry.com, I found a petition for naturalization dated February 16, 1948. It lists her birth date as January 14, 1908 with an address as 2166 2nd. Avenue, New York, New York.

Remember, Angelantonio (Anthony) and Antonetta, Filomena's parents, came here on April 21, 1907. Filomena was claimed to be 4 months old at that time. The ancestry.com 1910 census states Filomena was 4 at the time of the census. If that it true, that would mean she was born in 1906, not 1908 which is stated on familysearch website/death records. So, the real question is, do you think this is her? If not, any thoughts?

I cannot locate any other Filomena Testa's born near this date and coming into New Dorp, Staten Island. With this said, I have another document from the Dept. of Welfare dated May 1928 where she places my dad up for adoption. She is listed as being 21 years old. It seems to me the manifest/1910 cencus are incorrect as the dates seem perfect if compared to all other documents. Based upon the death record, NYS Dept. of Welfare paperwork, the petition for naturalization, it fits together very nicely. We have two pieces of paperwork which offer dates that are inconsistent with what I believe and three ocuments that support my thoughts.

Well, if you have any ideas on alternate research ideas, please let me know. I feel I am getting very close. Kind of like I am playing Marco Polo!!
One minute so close, another so far.

Best regards,

John

[JohnArmellino]

It seems to me the manifest/1910 cencus are incorrect as the dates seem perfect if compared to all other documents.

This cannot be true if we are talking about the same person. If she was born January 14, 1908 (as per the death record and petition for naturalization), then she could not have arrived in the USA on April 21, 1907. Either the manifest and 1910 census are correct or you have two different persons. Generally speaking, I find that the closer a record is to the event in question, the more accurate it tends to be. Hence, a death record is often inaccurate as to the year of birth. In addition, it was not uncommon for an immigrant to use an inaccurate date or year of birth throughout his or her life in the US. For example, all US records for my grandfather stated that his year of birth was 1882. I later found his manifest stating that he was 10 years old in 1890 and his birth record from 1880. I think it's possible that all of these records are for your Filomena.

[misbris]

I agree. I believe the manifest has the most accurate info.

Here are the census records. Look them over carefully, see how they fit and then I 'll give you some other info.

1920 census

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3912/1920nt8.jpg


1930 census (This has the whole family )

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4852/1930testahm9.jpg

1930 Venditti children

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4311/1930venon8.jpg