Info from VARNI passport?

[Victoria]

First of all, let me say what a terrific site this is. I have been longing for an in-depth italian site with forums and this one is great.

My issue is that I have been researching my g-grandfather for about 5 yrs now with no success, which is odd because I have practically every form of paperwork I could find on him except his birth record, which is what I need. His name was Carlo VARNI (b. 10/15/1894) and he came over to Ellis Island on 9/25/1911 from Torino.

The first problem was that though he was 17 at the time of passage he came alone and stayed with a couple that had come over earlier who he called his parents but they had different last names (Father: Fassio, Mother: Bevola/Beolo) so I am assuming they were foster parents of sorts. My grandmother says she knows nothing of his real parents, he never spoke of them, only considered the Fassio's as his parents.

I have his naturalization, marriage and death records, but none of them hint to where he was born. It only ever lists Italy or Torino as place of residence. My grandmother says he was born in Lusiglie though. I have written to Torino and Lusiglie archives as well as a church in Lusiglie where it is said he was an altar boy, but no one has any record of him.

My question is...I have a copy of his passport. Wouldn't the Torino government be able to track down some paperwork with perhaps a registration number from it? I'm assuming that citizens applying for passport would have to give specific info and proof of birth and residency....

I am at a loss on this one. I have even gone to Turin and Lusiglie myself, but the people at the archives weren't very helpful and not very eager to help me search. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[ptimber]

I am not comfortable wiuth the nformation you presented as I instinctively feel something is wrong. What should be isn't and that not natural. There is only one thing I would do that would overcome this based upon what you tell me. There are 15 people with the Varni name in the entire region of Piemonte with one in Torino itslef. Go to www.paginebianche.it and insert VARNI in the first line and Piemonte in the third line and the 15 names will appear. Write one letter and send a copy to each asking them if theyh know anything. Write in Italian and english and include a self addressed envelope with a dollar inside for stamps to encourage a reply. Peter

[Victoria]

When you say what should be isn't, what are you referring to? Also, digging through my paperwork, I found a "Tribunale di Torino - Casellario Giudiziario" which I am assuming he had to file to prove he wasn't a criminal before he left the country. Under parents it says "D'agnoti" and lists his province of birth as Torino and theres another line entitled "Sulla richiesta del" where it is written in as "Locidaro di Lusiglie" (Not sure about the first word, the handwriting is blurred) So I am assuming he had no idea who his parents were but that he was born in Lusiglie, am I right? Could I not still request info from Torino with the registration numbers on the passport?

[ptimber]

Victoria documents of birth,marriage death among others are found in the town of origin. Passsports are issed by the national government. Since you have not been successful in uncovering his birth records and there is no record for Lusiglie at the Mormon church Family History Library, I am at a loss to immediately come to the rescue. Perhaps I can delve into this and then get back to you. Peter

[Victoria]

Thank you for all your help, Peter. After reading the article on orphans and adoptees, I'm thinking that finding his birth record may be impossible depending on what the circumstance of his birth was. I just assumed that since a passport was a federal item that they would be able to locate the original records for application using the registration numbers that were issued with it. I will have to try and see, contact Torino Government and send a copy of the passport to see if they can help, but will also send the letters to all the Varni's as you suggested.

[ptimber]

You can go to www.freetranslation.com for the generic letter you are gong to prepare. They vclaim to do profesional translation at low rates...I don't know but just to let you know. I feel sure someonme will get back to you with the story. Peter

[JohnArmellino]

The FHL has microfilmed the Registri Ecclesiatici for the Parrocchia di Lusigli̬ for the years 1631 to 1899. There are two reels of microfilm. Have you reviewed these records yet? If your great grandfather was an abandoned infant his birth record might not appear among the other birth records in the Stato Civile Рthe birth records of abandoned infants, or proietti, were often kept with the miscellaneous documents (diversi). However, his baptismal certificate should be among the ecclesiastical records.

[ptimber]

The ecccliastical records cited above sound great but they are not all in chronological order and handwritten in old script in Italian and Latin. Its something to bear in mind down though. Petrer

[Victoria]

Are ecclesiastical records indexed? If they aren't chronological, there must be a way to search them without reading page by page...

[ptimber]

I would not bet the family jewels on that. I would venture to say there is no indexing of any kind just mere entries kept in order by one priest and not by another in Italian and latin in turn of the century curly script requiring the use of a magnifying glass oftimes to clarify spelling. Your decision. Peter

[ptimber]

I did a quick check which I am surprised that John did not supply you. There is a partial indexing but no dates are given and the registers consist of Baptisms, marriages, deaths and church census all together in no chronological order. Peter

[suanj]

Hi: an Albina BeRola emigrated in December 1906
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 2335070558
birth place Orio Canavese(Torino province), coming from Camenieri(????misspelled sure!)
Moreover are an Domenico FOssio ( with "O") emigrated in december 1911
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 1247040379
Moreover are an other Domenico Fasio (1 only S) emigrated in Jun 1911
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 1147140016

Suggestions??

Near the Italian Common, the passports for expatriation are recorded . I task that writing to Common of Lusigliè and sending to photocopy passport of Carl Varni, can be demanded info on this passport and on this person.
Moreover the passports are make from Prefettura, therefore you can write to the Prefettura of Turin to which Lusigliè it belongs.


Address:
Prefettura di Torino
Piazza Castello, 205
19124 Torino (TO)
Italy
also with fax +39 011 5589904
Excuse my english, regards, suanj

[Victoria]

Thank you so much Suanj! I had found emmigration of Domenico in the Ellis Island records, but never Albina. That is most assuredly her, the name is uncommon. I will have to pull up the record from here.

As for the passport, that's great news and what I had hoped. I know that here in the US paperwork regarding passports are kept forever as far back as passports were issued and I assumed it was the same in all countries since a passport is their only true connection to the person leaving. I will definitely write a letter to the commune di Lusiglie and attach a copy of the passport and hopefully will get somewhere with this. I had writtent o both Torino and Lusiglie last year requesting his birth certificate and neither had any record of him. If I requested birth and mentioned that he may be on the diversi list, would that perhaps help?

Thanks again,
Vikki

[Victoria]

I checked the Ellis Island records and the one for Albina may be her. The ones for Domenico were't him though, the ages didn't match up. He was born in 1872 and both of these men were too young. Will keep looking, thank you!

[suanj]

Hi Vikki: for to obtain an answer, the letter to be simple, clear, fast from reading, and in italian burocratic language.
They answer sure, why the Italian Law previews it.
I you council newly to ask Birth certificate to Lusigliè Common.
In others my messages here, are copies of info letter (for others person), but, change only the data and can capture it.
suanj