Need some help over here.

[TyLer]

Hi everyone, i'm going to ask you guys for a favour.
i'm not Italian but i'm doing a research on Italian's Culture

Basicly interested around 1880's cultures.
Cause i noticed the italian's women were not allowed to remarry, go out at night, in a certain age have to wear in black.

Is there any relavant point that i can refer on?
Like the changes of female on the social classes on the Timeline of Italy.

Actually i am studying the differences between Italian and Australian, if you guys have anything related, please be welcome to post.

(PS . forgive me, my english suck, english is not my mother tougue.)

[PeterTimber]

Dear Tyler what you are seeking is best found by researching the subject by browsing www.google.com using various titles that meet your research objectives.

Your english is fine. You communicate well and seeking out sources of information is your objective. =Peter=

[suanj]

Cause i noticed the italian's women
1.were not allowed to remarry,
2.go out at night,
3.in a certain age have to wear in black.

replies:
1. no true; the woman that no remarry had good reasons for not to remarry: a) no interested, because loved and respected so much the first husband; b) having no money problems; c) the children and/or relatives no wanted; d) no found a new boyfriend

2. go out the night..? and why? a woman stayed at home with children and waiting that the husband came back from work; they had no free time for to go out of night; if no married, the single women stayed at home equally because was no necessary to go out the night ..; any problem came sent to after day; to go in the night, for the italian women was accepted only for serious problems, as a death of relative or so... also they was most tired, having many children, and the evening was the only time for to make all other things, when the children slept....

3. in a certain age have to wear in black: no true; in black only the widows ; many women becoming widows when young, for accident, war etc...; they loved the black dress in sign of great pain and respect for husband's death; also, in the past, it was no wash machine; the economy was based on the agricolture in prevalence, and in other activities and for that the clothes was dark colour because they were soiled and it was difficult to wash them; also it was a problem for the water; so they preferring dark colours for clothes especially in the winter; and that in the week; but in the sunday the clothes was in all colours, because the people no working.. my grandmother was born around 1890 and I remember she and all women of same age with coloured clothes in the sunday; my grandmother had black clothes when becoming widow; she was of 82 old...

I task that many affirmations on the Italian culture have origin from bogus stereotypes...

[TyLer]

Dear Tyler what you are seeking is best found by researching the subject by browsing www.google.com using various titles that meet your research objectives.

Your english is fine. You communicate well and seeking out sources of information is your objective. =Peter=

Thanks.
I mean i understand, but instead of just googling, you people must have a better reference, just taking as much info as possible.

Cause i noticed the italian's women
1.were not allowed to remarry,
2.go out at night,
3.in a certain age have to wear in black.

replies:
1. no true; the woman that no remarry had good reasons for not to remarry: a) no interested, because loved and respected so much the first husband; b) having no money problems; c) the children and/or relatives no wanted; d) no found a new boyfriend

2. go out the night..? and why? a woman stayed at home with children and waiting that the husband came back from work; they had no free time for to go out of night; if no married, the single women stayed at home equally because was no necessary to go out the night ..; any problem came sent to after day; to go in the night, for the italian women was accepted only for serious problems, as a death of relative or so... also they was most tired, having many children, and the evening was the only time for to make all other things, when the children slept....

3. in a certain age have to wear in black: no true; in black only the widows ; many women becoming widows when young, for accident, war etc...; they loved the black dress in sign of great pain and respect for husband's death; also, in the past, it was no wash machine; the economy was based on the agricolture in prevalence, and in other activities and for that the clothes was dark colour because they were soiled and it was difficult to wash them; also it was a problem for the water; so they preferring dark colours for clothes especially in the winter; and that in the week; but in the sunday the clothes was in all colours, because the people no working.. my grandmother was born around 1890 and I remember she and all women of same age with coloured clothes in the sunday; my grandmother had black clothes when becoming widow; she was of 82 old...

I task that many affirmations on the Italian culture have origin from bogus stereotypes...

Thanks dude, you took it really serious.
the three statement i have been made is basicly base on a novel
and my teacher told it's factal.
However, you should be right.

but i mean even a family lost a father, a Italian mother can't remarry but man can
( the reason in novel is people will talk about it ...... orz )
is that ture ?

secondly, go out at night i would say go out to a pub or club.
( a mother go out to a pub )

In addional, I realize in the novel Italian women seldom go to work.
And Married women are not allowed to speak to a married man.

[suanj]

no, no it are stereotypes... a novel is a novel....
abt: Italian mother can't remarry but man can
reply: it is no true; my paternal grandfather (b 1900) widower, re married at a widow with a child....
men and women, if wished and if wishing can to re marry; the italians having catholic culture, and so no problems abt that... for a man is more necessary to re marry... a man need of a wife.... but a woman no always wish to re marry... the aunt of my mother ( b abt 1895) becoming widow in 1916( WWI); she was 21 old and with a son; she no remarried ; she wished so; she lived all life with son... it is a respect, a inconsolable pain, it is for the great love for the husband; and she no wished to become the wife of another man; she worked and grew up the son... so it are no prohibition abt the remarrying but only the choice by heart... if a widow remarrying nobody can say nothing, because it was and it is right for the law and for the catholic faith... so no problem abt that... only a personal choice... obviously in a novel it is easy that a heart choice become a stereotype...

abt: secondly, go out at night i would say go out to a pub or club.
( a mother go out to a pub )
reply: a honest mother, or a honest single woman no wished to go in a pub or club, because thinking that is no a good behavior for a honest woman... she no need of to go in a pub or a club.. because she no wish met occasional friends or to drink or other...; obviously in modern time the things are differents, but in the past the women having catholic heritage essentially, so any behavior was by that...
the stereotypes abt the italians are a misinterpretation of good behavior second the people's culture and especially the catholic faith...
I understood that it is hard for people of foreign countries to understand that, but if anyone thinking that the Italy have a great catholic heritage, all is easy of to understand.... maybe in your novel the stereotypes are under lay interpretation, but I can say you that in the past, the women's behaviors coming from catholic faith>education>heart's choices....

[vj]

suanj ,
Very interesting and beautifully explained
Thank you!
Valarie

[PeterTimber]

While Suanj zeroed with specificity on the subject matter of interest to you, you may also wish to review the larger less exact social climate of 19th century and early 20th century social life in Italy to give you a background to enhance the information already provided you.

Go to www.librarything.com/subject/italy =Peter=

[suanj]

thank you vj! in addition I wish to reply abt that:
And Married women are not allowed to speak to a married man.
reply: and why? it is a malignancy... my maternal grandmother ( b abt 1887-d. 1964) when the husband was in WWI and prisoner in Germany, well she already was mother of 3 living children and she directed the own farm as a very able man, speaking with all labourers, singles or married men, no important that....
obviously if a people see a unusual contact between a married woman with a man that was no a relative, no a family friend, it was and it is normal that someone can think abt a probable love's affair... and so any woman making attention for no give confidence to men if no necessary, because no wish malignancy abt own honor of honest woman...

[misbris]

It would be interesting to know the title of the novel that TyLer is reading. It seems to give a very biased view of Italian women. Perhaps part of the assignment should be to find out all the inaccuracies in this fictional work, rather than accept it as fact.

[wldspirit]

I second that opinion Misbris!!
Lee

[Squigy]

It would be interesting to know the title of the novel that TyLer is reading. It seems to give a very biased view of Italian women. Perhaps part of the assignment should be to find out all the inaccuracies in this fictional work, rather than accept it as fact.

I, too, agree with Misbris and Suanj. This novel seems to be using a lot of negative stereotypes. I also find it funny that his teacher "told him it was accurate". Can you even imagine if a teacher said that about other groups? How often do you hear about teachers getting in trouble, even for perceived slights against other groups. Anyway, I just thought I'd add my two cents.

P.S. I know this post is old, but I was going through the History and Culture section, and thought I'd reply anyway.

[DeFilippis78]

I want to add that these stereotypes shouldnt be pointed towards just Italian woman but describe many woman. It describes most mothers. There is truth in them. Im a mother of 4 but Im American. I dont think its appropriate to talk to other men, go to a bar at night. I also dont go out at night because like sunj said, we are tired from taking care of children all day. If my husband died I would probably never marry again because I love him that much. What your reading is the mind of most loving mothers and wives regardless of nationality and shouldnt be directed as just an "italian" thing. Its a "wife and mother" thing and perfectly normal and respectable

Alicia

[aliza24]

I agree with Suanj. These are nothing but stereotypes (outdated ones at that).

Like the thing about widows wearing black- that's more from the old days. And this wasn't just in Italy. A lot of cultures around the mediterranean did this.

About women going out- not a lot of men in those days were hanging out at pubs either! In those days, you worked the land from sun up to sun down. Plus, they had a lot of kids, like Suanj said. You were exhausted by the end of the day! No one really had the time, money or energy to be "going out"- men or women.

And the thing about not being able to re-marry. Not true either. I've seen women re-marrying in the genealogical records. In fact, some were surprisingly up there in years when they re-married.

And you said that in this book that women also "seldom go to work.
And Married women are not allowed to speak to a married man."????

I don't get this it all. I am very surprised that your teacher is not only having you read this, but telling you that it's factual!!

Did your teacher actually imply that this stuff is still true today- or was he / she meaning back in the 1800's?

[Squigy]

I agree with Suanj. These are nothing but stereotypes (outdated ones at that).

Like the thing about widows wearing black- that's more from the old days. And this wasn't just in Italy. A lot of cultures around the mediterranean did this.

About women going out- not a lot of men in those days were hanging out at pubs either! In those days, you worked the land from sun up to sun down. Plus, they had a lot of kids, like Suanj said. You were exhausted by the end of the day! No one really had the time, money or energy to be "going out"- men or women.

And the thing about not being able to re-marry. Not true either. I've seen women re-marrying in the genealogical records. In fact, some were surprisingly up there in years when they re-married.

And you said that in this book that women also "seldom go to work.
And Married women are not allowed to speak to a married man."????

I don't get this it all. I am very surprised that your teacher is not only having you read this, but telling you that it's factual!!

Did your teacher actually imply that this stuff is still true today- or was he / she meaning back in the 1800's?

Might I add; my great grandparents used to go out at night. I actully have a picture of them at some club or some such thing, taken in the 40's.

Also, wearing black after the death of a loved one was common, even in the US, in the 1800's.