Need help w/ info on Gerardo Lanza, Agnese ?, kids orphaned?

[kathymullins001]

Hello all.

This is a big challenge because of the lack of info I have.

My grandmother's father, Carlo Perlino, born 1871 in (he thought) San Agata, Foggia, Italy is the child of Gerardo Lanza and Agnese ?. The story disseminated through our family is that we do not know that Gerardo and Agnese were married. They may have perhaps later, or after a few kids, but as the very vague story goes, Gerardo and Agnes had to give their kids away or the town had to take them and that it was the town that gave the kids the last name of Perlino. Maybe the kids were orphaned, we don't know.

The kids that we know of names were as follows:
Alpinolo Lanza, who may have later become Perlino
Aufemia Perlino - a variation on the spelling of this name starts with an E
Paolo Perlino
Carlo Perlino - my great grand dad
Francesco Perlino

In looking at Carlo Perlino's ship manifest record coming to America, It lists Accadia as last place of residence. It lists his nationality, but I can't read the cursive writing. Not sure if you can view it from this link, but here it is:
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=V ... 4003614345

We don't know if any of the other kids came to America or not. I have not been able to find anything for any of their names. Found a few things for a Francesco Perlino, but it does not appear to be the same person as the record listed a father's name and it wasn't Gerardo... BUT it could be an adoptive father or mentor or something. Not sure what happens when the "town" gets the kids. No one is alive anymore that knows anything further.

So, any ideas? I've come up with zilch in searching for information on Gerardo Lanza or Agnese, and tried all different types of search variations that I could think of. We'd sure like to know where our family came from in Italy and maybe a little more about Carlo's brothers and sisters, what happened to them... and Agnese's last name and/or what happened to Gerardo and Agnese, why did the kids have to be given away as the story goes???? So many questions, so little answers.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!!

[vj]

Here's another link to Carlo's 1905 manifest
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6430/1905u.jpg
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If you haven't done this already, you could write to both comunes for Carlo's birth & marriage(?) records. Both should have his parent's names.
Valarie

Italian form letter generator with instructions:
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp

Or other helpful form letters:
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwi ... tters.html

Addresses:

Comune di Accadia
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Via Roma
71021 Accadia FG
ITALY

Comune di Sant'Agata di Puglia
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Piazza XX Settembre 7
71028 Sant'Agata di Puglia FG
ITALY
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Website for finding comune addresses:
http://www.nonsolocap.it/

[vj]

edit: removed incorrect record

[kathymullins001]

Thansk VJ. The 1905 Manifest record is the correct record. The 1907 one is not, Carlo's wife was Maria Schiavone, born 1882 also in Accadia, Foggia, Italy.

On Carlo's Manifest, can you make out the Nationality listed?

For Maria Schiavone, here is her manifest record. It didn't look like the last link I tried to disply worked, but I will try again:
[link]http://search.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=View&r=an&dbid=7488&iid=NYT715_824-0415&fn=Maria&ln=Schiavone&st=r&ssrc=pt_t17882915_p573107599_g32768&pid=4040583354[/link]

I just received this information from my great Aunt:
"From what I know from my mom's research Carlo and his siblings were given away at birth to different families because his parents weren't married and Agnese's family was rich and was embarrassed. The town gave them all different last names. Carlo lived in Accadia but all the town records were distroyed in a fire"

That sounds strange to me and little different from other stories I've heard. It seems if Agnese had all these kids out of wedlock, instead of adopting out a half dozen kids, they would have just made them marry. I wonder what made my great Aunts mom think all the records were destroyed. She isn't alive anymore to answer that question...

[Tessa78]

Hi and welcome!

The nationality on Carlo's manifest WAS "So. Italian", "Latin." These were crossed out and Italy is written over So. Italian, and South is written over Latin.



T.

[Tessa78]

Here is the link to the manifest you referenced for Maria Schiavone (the Ancestry link you provided. However this is a 1907 manifest, she is going to husband Bellicose Tancredi in Buffalo.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9755/schiavone.jpg

T.

[vj]

... "Carlo lived in Accadia but all the town records were distroyed in a fire" ...

Your nearest Family History Center can order records for Accadia on microfilm.
The cost is about $6 mo (rent), you’ll need to go to the center to order & view them.

Topic:
Italy, Foggia, Accadia - Civil registration

Titles:
Registri dello stato civile di Accadia (Foggia), 1809-1905 Accadia (Foggia).
Ufficio dello stato civile


film notes for Accadia
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... i+Accadia+% &columns=*,0,0
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In case you aren’t familiar with the Family History Center & Italian records

FamilySearch Home Page
Includes how to find your nearest local Family History Center
You may want to call first to verify the hours they're open.
Most centers are staffed with very helpful volunteers.

A helpful essay written by Trish, one of our forum members:
Steps for Finding Microfilm at the Family History Center

Family History Library Catalog:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library ... t_fhlc.asp
---

Italian Record Research from FamilySearch guides:
Italy Research Outline
---

Also from FamilySearch (PDF format)
Italian Records Extraction - An Instructional Guide

[kathymullins001]

wow. You guys are very good. And here I thought I had the correct manifest. I couldn't read the writing and just saw Buffalo, NY so assumed it was correct. You are right though, that is NOT the correct record.

I then remembered that I saw a manifest record for my grandma's two oldest siblings when they came over at ages 4 and 2 years old... and I had assumed they came over with a family friend or something because Maria's name wasn't there. I just looked at that record again... it seems it must be their records... But this is really very strange... the person traveling with the two kids lists on page 2 of their manifest record, Carlo Perlino as their husband in Buffalo, NY, but their name is not Maria Schiavone, its Camelia Tinelia. Even my grandmother (before she died) had said that her mothers name was Maria Schiavone, so that has to be right.

Could it be that much of a coincidence that someone was traveling with two kids with the same name and ages of my grandma's oldest siblings, going to Buffalo, NY (where my family lived) and going to see husband "Carlo Perlino" (my grandmas dad's name) . Seems like too much of a coincidence to me... but Camelia Tinelia is a far cry from Maria Schiavone, so its not like someone just misunderstood the name, or butchered the spelling.

Has anyone ever run across something like that? So weird...

Here is the record:
[link]http://search.ancestry.com/iexec/?htx=View&r=an&dbid=7488&iid=NYT715_941-0184&fn=Antonio&ln=Perlino&st=r&ssrc=pt_t17882915_p576583862_g32768&pid=4013761950[/link]

and page two:
[link]http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7488&path=1907.07.10.Neckar.92&sid=&gskw=Antonio+Perlino[/link]

the two kids are line 9&10 and the mom is line 8.

[Tessa78]

I looked at the record, and Carlo Perlino in Buffalo is defintely the destination. As for the wife's name, I think you have it reversed. Camelia looks to be the last name. Not sure what the first name is.
edit: A REALLY close look...first name looks like Amelia.The 1930 Census shows Carlo's wife to be Mary

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1051 ... census.jpg

T.

[Tessa78]

Here is an interesting manifest from 1930 which lists:
Carlo Perlino 58
Maria Perlino 48
Antonio Perlino 27
Clara Perlino 25 (Daughter in law as per 1930 census)
Also traveling on next line...Filomena Schiavone 50.

According to the manifest Carlo naturalized in Buffalo on July 1, 1914.

All of them live in Buffalo.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3595 ... st1930.jpg


T.

[Tessa78]

OK... some interesting findings...

1910 Census for the Carlo Perlino family shows them living in Buffalo.
Carlo is listed as M2 which refers to twice married. He and Maria have been married 10 years (she has M1 notation). They are listed with having 2 children, and 2 are living. No immigration year for Maria.
Son Antonio, born in Italy, immigrated 1909, is 8 years old.

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/4702 ... census.jpg

For the 1920 Census they are living on Swan St. (same as 1930 manifest)
The last name has been written as Perlinano.
In addition to Carlo, Maria and Antonio, there are several other children.
James, 28 born in Italy, immigration unknown date. (this is the curiosity, since James is only 10 years younger than Maria. Possibly had a different mother...)
The rest of the children were born in New York:
Samuel 7
Rosie 5
Lucy 3
Josephine 5 months.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9936 ... census.jpg

Just a thought...maybe James (which may be Vincenzo) was from first wife, and Antonio arrived in US with a friend or relative on that manifest above. Any relatives with first name Amelia?
James may have traveled at another time.
The rest of the children were Maria's...


T.

[Tessa78]

On Ellisisland.org is a manifest for Maria Schiavone from 1906. She is single and traveling to brother-in-law Dominic CARMELO (looks like the same name on Antonio's manifest---Amelia Carmelo) in Hartford. She is from Accadia like Carlo.
She is on Line 30

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0030

T.

[Tessa78]

1930 Census for James Perlino lists him living in Buffalo (Rhode Island St.) with his two sons: Carlo 7 and Vincent 3 Yrs. 4 mos.
James is listed as married for 10 years, but mother is not on the census form.
James immigration date is listed as 1907.

T.

[kathymullins001]

Here is an interesting manifest from 1930 which lists:
Carlo Perlino 58
Maria Perlino 48
Antonio Perlino 27
Clara Perlino 25 (Daughter in law as per 1930 census)
Also traveling on next line...Filomena Schiavone 50.

According to the manifest Carlo naturalized in Buffalo on July 1, 1914.

All of them live in Buffalo.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3595 ... st1930.jpg


T.

Yes, this is the correct record! Antonio was my Uncle Tony and I knew Clara too. She was Uncle Tony's wife.

[kathymullins001]

OK... some interesting findings...

1910 Census for the Carlo Perlino family shows them living in Buffalo.
Carlo is listed as M2 which refers to twice married. He and Maria have been married 10 years (she has M1 notation). They are listed with having 2 children, and 2 are living. No immigration year for Maria.
Son Antonio, born in Italy, immigrated 1909, is 8 years old.

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/4702 ... census.jpg

For the 1920 Census they are living on Swan St. (same as 1930 manifest)
The last name has been written as Perlinano.
In addition to Carlo, Maria and Antonio, there are several other children.
James, 28 born in Italy, immigration unknown date. (this is the curiosity, since James is only 10 years younger than Maria. Possibly had a different mother...)
The rest of the children were born in New York:
Samuel 7
Rosie 5
Lucy 3
Josephine 5 months.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9936 ... census.jpg

Just a thought...maybe James (which may be Vincenzo) was from first wife, and Antonio arrived in US with a friend or relative on that manifest above. Any relatives with first name Amelia?
James may have traveled at another time.
The rest of the children were Maria's...

This is the correct family! My grandmother is Josephine, the baby on the census. Samuel, strange as it may seem is what they were calling My Uncle Tony (Antonio) for a while,they called him "Sammie". Antonio is the child listed on the 1910 census.


T.

My mom and Aunt confirmed that Carlo was married before and had two sons with his wife then she died and he remarried to Maria. I knew all of my grandmother's siblings, but did not know James or who the other 1/2 brother was. My mother said they were not in good favor with the family and she didn't know them either.

The other woman listed on that manifest that brought over Antonio and Carmela is still a mystery. No idea who it could be, nor does the few people left alive that I could ask. Strange...

Anyhow, I guess with Carlo being adopted, there probably is no way to know for sure where he was from in Italy as his birth place he listed may have been that of his adoptive family. And since I can't find a manifest for Maria, I guess we don't know where she is from for sure eihter...