ice cream vendors

[thegreypigeon]

Why did so many people who left Southern Italy to move to London become ice cream vendors ? Was it a skill they had before they left ?

[Italysearcher]

Ice cream was invented by the Sicilians. It was not usually a trade the immigrant had before leaving. He probably learned it in order to ave a skill in his new location.

[Emmy]

My grandfather came to Uk around 1886/1887 and at first his occupation was said to be an intinerant muscian (London)then later he was what was known as a 'hawker' and went round the streets trading ice-cream.(Glasgow)
This is part of information I was given about how the ice-cream trade came to UK If you click on the image it will enlarge it and there is a web site listed at the bottom I'm not sure but perhaps you'll get more information from that web site.
Hope this helps.
Emmy

[thegreypigeon]

Thanks Emmy that is a brilliant essay detailing the trials of the shop owners in Glasgow - cheers.

[PeterTimber]

Emmy nationalities in the USA when arriving as immigants went to work in specific trades or businesses on the basis of town of origin. Italians were no different in the USA and people from one part or province became icemen while others became shoemakers from an adjoining province or town. Still others became barbers, recyclers of paper and cardboard, horse and leather dealers etc etc..even pizza makers!!!

Thus the ice cream vendors was a ready made business to enter into for "newcomers". Actuallyh it all depended on what the first immigrants engaged in to make a living that caused immigrants from the same town to follow suit. =Peter=

[Emmy]

Hi Peter
thanks for the information. It seems in the UK and especially Scotland most seemed to go into the ice-cream trade and 'Fish/chip' shops although its true others took up different professions. I've already heard that in US if they arrived in Michigan it would be mostly the motor trade industry they would go into and as you say each state may offer some other trade where people were estalbished.
But I do know for definate that some Italians who were established here in UK did go back to Italy to recruit others to come to UK to work and tempted by getting them to believe they were going to have a better life and more money but what they weren't told was the long hours they would have to work for very little and the accomodation available at that time was hardly habitable. Later some were offered a shop 'on rent' and to pay off the capital they had to give quite a large percentage of their takings to the owner of the property and in some cases when they found the going difficult they had to apply for 'poor relief' money to help them survive. So maybe for many Italians coming to UK in the late 1800's they had a very difficult time indeed. I know for a fact my ancestors did have a difficult time and I often sit and think I wish I could have gone back in time to be there to help them.
Emmy

[PeterTimber]

These "recruiters" were known as Padrone and worked individually and for companies which I suspect started in England When the USA initated its Industrial revolution after the civil war it blossomed since the need for manpower was very great. At first huge numbers were recruited for 6 months or a year at most for large projects like the NYC subways, Dams, railroads etc and when this traffic took hold and the destruction of Southern Italy became rooted into poverty, unemployment and confiscation of lands the way was paved for the permanent mass migration.

Like everything else Merry Old England was always ahead of the world in all the technical and social changes that we "enjoy" today but to my mind
post roman civilization was salvaged by the English and exported to the entire world. Needless to say I am an anglophile. =Peter=

[Emmy]

Very interesting Peter
Thanks
Emmy

[boozy.bird]

These "recruiters" were known as Padrone and worked individually and for companies which I suspect started in England When the USA initated its Industrial revolution after the civil war it blossomed since the need for manpower was very great. At first huge numbers were recruited for 6 months or a year at most for large projects like the NYC subways, Dams, railroads etc and when this traffic took hold and the destruction of Southern Italy became rooted into poverty, unemployment and confiscation of lands the way was paved for the permanent mass migration.

Like everything else Merry Old England was always ahead of the world in all the technical and social changes that we "enjoy" today but to my mind
post roman civilization was salvaged by the English and exported to the entire world. Needless to say I am an anglophile. =Peter=

Checkout website http://www.west-bar-italians.co.uk or just google west bar italians

[PeterTimber]

Dear Boozy.bird your reference to west Bar Italians is a bit sophmoric sorry to say.

In Brief: Southern Italy was part of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and prospered with king, industry and a healthy treasury. Northern Italians (Tuscany northwards east and west to the borders were under French and Austrian domination and in poor economic shape. Some went to merry old and even more immigrated to Argentina, Uruguay and Chile from 1800 to 1850's. When Italy was "united" by Garibaldi, House of Savoy and drooling northern nobility they swooped down into southern italy, looted the trreasury, stripped the factories and shipped them North, confiscated lands and created poverty, unemployment, starvation, pestilence and no education. This is when the USA embarked upon its own industrial revolution and needed manual laborers by the millions. This is why I am here writing to you!!!! =Peter=

[jamiecapaldi]

Why did so many people who left Southern Italy to move to London become ice cream vendors ? Was it a skill they had before they left ?

On my GGgrandfathers England records, it shows him as a Street Musician, but on a couple of Scottish records he is shown as a Restaurater and Confectioner. I do not know the exact profession, but i am guessing Fish Bar and Ice Cream Trade. I know his Cousins lived up the street from where they were living in Edinburgh had a Ice Cream Business, so maybe he gave him work for the time he stayed there.

[thegreypigeon]

Yes Jamie My G.grandfather came from Italy to London - to Cambuslang as ice cream vendor in 1901. I think that was because Biaggs Rinaldi was the ice man and he supplied the others. He later had shop in Shettleston and finally Baillieston - then the bookies stepped in !

[amerital43]

Thanks to all for that bit of interesting history. I, myself, have learned to make Granitas (Italian Ices) in recent years, but they are only for personal consumption, not business.