top secret clearance and dual citizenship

[sceaminmonkey]

I would never lie to the american government. it sucks though. just sucks that if I wanted to continue with a career at the department of state, I would have to renounce my italian citizenship after all that work

[mler]

Screamin, has your citizenship already be recognized? If not, you can simply put your application on hold until you have a better idea of whether or not it works for you. I know it's disappointing, but you probably can understand the US government's position.

A job with the State Department seems exciting. It may be worth the wait.

[sceaminmonkey]

can I put it on hold? so far I am just waiting to hand in my letter from the court correcting my ggf naturalization record. I am pretty much at the last step. they already have my birth certificate. can I just go in and ask for my birth certificate back lol? I'm afraid if we tell them to continue to register my mother and siblings it will seem as if I don't want it and its like renouncing it.

[mler]

Yes, you can. You can tell them that for personal reasons you will have to postpone your application for a later date and perhaps another jurisdiction but that your mom and siblings will continue their application. They won't ask, but if for some reason they do, you can say that you have an employment issue. Then ask them to return your apostilled bc and application. There's no problem with doing that, and it is in no way like renouncing. You are simply postponing your application for a time that works for you. You are still an Italian citizen, and you are not renouncing that citizenship; you are simply postponing official recognition. The consulate won't care and won't remember.

In fact, it works out very well. Then after a or week or two, you can bring in the amended document for your family's file. Once their citizenships are recognized, getting yours will be easy since you will be able to reference their file. And in the meantime, you can consider your future career.

Best of luck.

[sceaminmonkey]

thats actually good advice. I think I may do that. I do feel stupid doing it though. my only concern is if the laws change

[mler]

I don't think the law is going to change any time in the near future, and if it does, you will have ample warning. With your mom recognized, you are pretty safe. I can't imagine any future law that would affect the child of a citizen.

I edited my last message to add that your status as an Italian citizen will not change; you are simply postponing a request for recognition.

[sforza]

This is one good reason to hold off on registering one's minor children. I had been planning on registering my two very young children, but perhaps this is a matter best left for them to decide when they're of age. It's one thing to assume they won't be president of the United States, but another to realize that entire career options could be closed off to them. And in our particular case, as DC residents, interning for the state department isn't a stretch.
I do have a question about this - we will be going to Italy and I hope to be recognized by that point. Would my children be required to hold Italian passports? I vaguely remember reading/hearing something to this effect, perhaps on another forum.

[mler]

You make a good point, sforza. My son has yet to register my grandson, and perhaps there is a good reason to wait.

Are you planning to live in Italy? If not, I can't imagine why your children would not be able to travel with their US passports.

If you are relocating to Italy, your children would be eligible for visas to be with family.

[sforza]

I'm probably misremembering. Maybe it was that the kids would be required to have Italian passports if they were in the AIRE and traveling to Italy?

[johnnyonthespot]

Registering or not registering may not be the issue; the children are, according to Italian citizenship law, citizens regardless - even if they have not been officially recognized as such.

What I have read on this subject is that the determination is made based upon whether the subject has actively participated in his dual citizen status. So long as he or she does not hold an Italian passport and does not cast a vote in any Italian election, he/she is treated as no more nor less Italian than any "unrecognized" person of Italian descent.

However, if his/her birth is registered, he/she will be able to claim full citizenship rights whenever he/she may choose to do so, regardless of any future changes in Italian citizenship laws.

[sforza]

Thanks Carmine. Yes, I think I'm confused by the concept of registration - is registering their births with the comune different than registration in the AIRE, which is a database of recognized citizens living abroad? And the related question, is the registration of their births part of my own recognition process, ie, do I automatically send my childrens' birth certs to the comune along with my birth and marriage certs? And the process of getting them in the AIRE would require a separate affirmative action - getting them passports or them applying themselves when of age?
Or am I overthinking/confusing things again?

[johnnyonthespot]

Honestly, I don't know.

My understanding is that technically you are required to register the births of your children, your marriages and/or divorces, file notice of death for any recognized family member (and arrange to have someone do it in the event of your own death), change of address or contact info such as telephone or email, and so on and so on.

These things you are supposed to do because you are an Italian citizen and are expected to follow all the rules and regulations applicable to any other Italian citizen.

Now, as to the other issue, as I stated above it is my understanding that the US government in matters pertaining to security clearance and such makes a distinction between persons who are merely Italian citizens by birth (against their will, if you like) and those who actively embrace and pursue that citizenship (passports, voting in Italian elections, etc).

[mler]

Carmine, that seems to mean that my son can register his son's bc with the consulate but that, unless my grandson actively acts on that citizenship, he is not considered a dual citizen according the the US government. Am I reading this correctly?

It seems to make sense, because all the registration does is affirm that the registered child is a citizen from birth; and according to Italian law, this applies to many people, even those who never pursue citizenship recognition.

[johnnyonthespot]

Carmine, that seems to mean that my son can register his son's bc with the consulate but that, unless my grandson actively acts on that citizenship, he is not considered a dual citizen according the the US government. Am I reading this correctly?

It seems to make sense, because all the registration does is affirm that the registered child is a citizen from birth; and according to Italian law, this applies to many people, even those who never pursue citizenship recognition.

That is exactly my understanding.

[mler]

Whew! Thank, Carmine.