Pizzirusso and Rafaniello from Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi

[CarlaGrillo39]

I understand what you are saying now. I did not read your comment properly and I apologise. I suppose I latched onto this assumption as I have seen multiple comments stating that all records have been destroyed and cannot be obtained by anyone. This is why I have only ordered microfilms in recent times, when I was told otherwise on this forum.

Does anyone know if church records from the town Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi(Chiesa Madre) still exist?

Cheers,

Carla

[CarlaGrillo39]

Archivio di Stato di Avellino
E-Mail: as-av@beniculturali.it
They will have the military record
email message
Archivio di Stato di Avellino
OGGETTO:registro di militare

Hi Marty,

I sent my request to the email specified above. I received the following reply:

Si comunica che, effettuate le opportune ricerche nei Registri di Leva della provincia di Avellino per l'anno 1881, il nominato in oggetto risulta alla matricola n° 9298. Per l'invio della copia e` necessario far pervenire la somma di $10 (dieci), in moneta cartacea (non essendo utilizzabili i coupon), per la spese di fotocopia e spedizione, completa dei dati del destinario, al seguente indirizzo:
Archivo di Stato di Avellino
Via verdi, 15/17
83100 AVELLINO

with the following side note: Si invia la nota in oggetto.

I'm unsure of the direct translation but I think that I need to send $10 (in Euro?)to the address specified to obtain copies of my ancestors army records. Do you know what information I should include with the sent money?

Cheers,

Carla

[adelfio]

Send both a copy of the request and the email reply recieved and 10 euro

Marty

[Italysearcher]

They want cash, not some coupon or cheque.

[CarlaGrillo39]

Thank you both. I will do that as soon as possible. Does the note specify that they have found my ancestor in the army records (i.e., from an index)?

Cheers,

Carla

[adelfio]

Thank you both. I will do that as soon as possible. Does the note specify that they have found my ancestor in the army records (i.e., from an index)?

Cheers,

Carla

Carla
It says they checked the Avellino lever class for the year 1881, the person in question appears to serial No. 9298.

Marty

[CarlaGrillo39]

Thanks Marty. So I can be assured I will receive copies of records concerning my ancestor?

[CarlaGrillo39]

Hi all,

I have recently discovered that my 3x great grandfather appears to be an illegitimate child. He was born in 1853 to Angela Pizzirusso and an unknown father. Does anyone know if it was unusual for a girl to keep an illegitimate baby in Italy during the 1850s? Would she have been an outcast for this act within her community?

Cheers,

Carla

[adelfio]

Did Angela Pizzirusso get married maybe later and the father recongnized the child? Have you checked other records?

Marty

[CarlaGrillo39]

Hi Marty,

The first record I found was a conscription record online for a Rocco Pizzirusso. I wasn't sure if this was my Rocco, but the record specified that the mother was an Angela Pizzirusso and his father was 'ignoto' which I later found out meant unknown. I then confirmed that this was my Rocco as I found his marriage record (pubblicazione) from the LDS which specified that Angela Pizzirusso was his mother and still alive (meaning she didn't remarry?) and that his father was padre ni***endo or niente or something along those lines as it was quite hard to read and make sense of with limited Italian. I have ordered earlier birth records so hopefully I will be able to find him (as I have his exact birth date from the conscription records) and see what it says. Was it common for outsiders from northern countries or even northern parts of Italy to visit small towns like S. Angelo during the 1850s? I ask as my family is fairly sure Rocco Pizzirusso was blonde haired and blue eyed as his son was also blonde haired and blue eyed, which seems quite unusual for someone from a southern town. Maybe an outsider had relations with Angela? I also wanted to know that if the father was specified as unknown, was he truly unknown by the mother or was it always recorded when the parents were not married? Also, I found another ancestor's (Rocco Antonio Ferrantino) pubblicazione record which specifies 'genitori ignoto' or parents unknown. Could this mean he was an orphan or put up for adoption? He was born circa 1875.

Cheers,

Carla

[CarlaGrillo39]

I forgot to ask, am I able to obtain more detailed conscription records of Rocco Pizzirusso? I found him on the following website: http://poster.beniculturali.it/poster/action.do

Which specifies the following:

SIAS Code IT-ASAV-F4600703
Ufficio Leva, Enlistment year 1853.Volume number 1,
document number 184 page 297 section d
Rocco Pizzirusso, bracciale enlisted on 03/12/1873
born on 12/09/1853 to SANT'ANGELO DEI LOMBARDI
son/daughter of - Ignoto and of Angela Pizzirusso

Carla

[adelfio]

Its hard to say she could of hid her pregnancy during that time. The father could of been a person of higher standing like landowner,in government or in the church that didnt want to be recongnized as the child's father.
The conscription record you have is a extract of the info is what is written off the record.
Padre ignoto with mother listed means baby was born out of wedlock and the mother did not give the baby up for adoption and the mothers name was recorded for the baby name.
If both parents are listed as genitori ignoto look for the word proietto/foundling or outcast then the baby was either raise by the state or adopted


Marty

[CarlaGrillo39]

Hi Marty,

Thank you for the information. I'm now quite intrigued to know who the father actually was of Rocco Pizzirusso. Is there any way of checking this? Would it be mentioned on the civil birth records? Also, is there any other way of finding more information about Rocco Antonio Ferrantino (whether he was a foundling) without the birth record? The LDS records for his birth date period were so out of focus and water damaged they could not be deciphered.

Additionally, I would love to see the full image of the conscription record for Rocco Pizzirusso. Do I contact the Portale della Storia degli Italiani?

Cheers,

Carla

[adelfio]

The conscription record is located at
ARCHIVIO DI STATO DI AVELLINO
Via G. Verdi, 15/17
83100 Avellino
Italy
I would email first
E-Mail: as-av@beniculturali.it

OGGETTO: Richiesta esito di leva di Rocco Pizzirusso classe di nascita 1853.

Gentilissima Signora, Gentile Signore,

La ringrazio anticipatamente di voler comunicare i costi di spese di riproduzione e postali per ottenere l'esito di leva di questa persona

Nominativo: Rocco Pizzirusso
Sesso: M
Luogo di nascita: Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi
Data di nascita: 12/09/1853
Professione: bracciale
Ufficio Leva, arruolamento anno 1853.
Volume numero 1, numero del documento
di 184 pagine 297 sezione d
arruolamento anno 1873
Padre: ignoto
Madre: Angela Pizzirusso

Per favore, vi chiedo di spedirmi una fotocopie delle di leva di Rocco Pizzirusso
Se non fosse possibile fotocopiare il materiale,potete fornire l’indirizzo dell’archivio dove in cui i registri possano essere trovati?
Vi ringrazio in anticipo per il vostro gentilezza e premura.
Distinti saluti,
NAME EMAIL ADDRESS

Rocco Antonio Ferrantino you would need to get the birth record was there a index in the in the records you looked at?

Marty

[sjwilly]

Carla,
Earlier you asked if the church records from Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi still exist. Some of them still do, but there are gaps with some years missing.
My great grandfather was born there and later immigrated to the U.S.
The church records were never microfilmed by the LDS church and since the Roman Catholic church no longer allows them to film their church registers, the only way you would be able to see them is go there yourself or hire somebody to search the church registers for you and take photos of there records (which is what I did)
However since there are gaps in the church records I would recommend following the vital records trail for all of your ancestors in the town back to when they first started in the early 1800's before you would consider going through the church records. You should be warned, though, that the gaps extend beyond that time period and depending on your ancestors circumstances (age, marriage date, etc.) it's possible that your ancestors records might not have survived and it wouldn't be possible to extend their lineage further back. You should take that possibility into consideration when you try to decide if searching the church records is worth the cost.