What Next Please?

[catshouse2]

Ok, here's where I stand- can anyone offer any suggestions on what my next steps should be?

I am applying GGF, GF, F, me. Apt is in Phily 11/12.

1. I have no birth record for GF. I have No Record Found from all NYC buroughs and over 12 catholic churches. He was born in 1896 but no appearance in census until 1910, and this under a suspect name.

2. I have no BC for GGF as I have no comune. No DC either. He comes into the country, marries GGM and disappears. I have 7 No Records Found for numerous comunes. No response from USICS yet.

3. No luck with paid researchers to date.

4. I am going to need a one and the same for GF- I was advised that I couldn't get one until after my apt. Why can't I go ahead and address that before I go to phily? Anyone know?

Questions;
How many churches do I need to check? Until I find the baptismal record? Am waiting for info on military records for GGF from Palermo but everytime they respond to my inquiry I am told I have sent the inquiry to the wrong place and am re-directed. My LDS research center is lame, should I look into going to a larger city to use their facility? Might they have something that I can't access online?

Thanks again for any assistance you can offer.

[Italysearcher]

You need an expert. Have you tried lostquays@gmail.com? SHe is amazing.

[Italia1963]

Is it possible that your GF was born and lived in a different state before 1910? Also, have you tried different spelling variations of your family’s name when looking for the 1900 census?

Have you found your GGF’s ship manifest? Many times, it will list the comune that your family came from. A good site to see where you family name is in Italy today is (which is most likely where your ancestors came from)…
http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo- ... oni-italia
Just type in the surname where it says “Cerca un cognome”

This is also the web site for lDS that may help....
https://familysearch.org/

You can do a One and the Same petition at any time. But probably best to wait until you have all your documents to see what other documents you want to mention in your petition that you need corrected but for whatever reason, can not amend.

[catshouse2]

You need an expert. Have you tried lostquays@gmail.com? SHe is amazing.

I agree- thanks for the referral- I have emailed her today-hopefully I will have better luck with her than all the others I have contacted. Thanks for the guidance!

[catshouse2]

Is it possible that your GF was born and lived in a different state before 1910? Also, have you tried different spelling variations of your family’s name when looking for the 1900 census?

Have you found your GGF’s ship manifest? Many times, it will list the comune that your family came from. A good site to see where you family name is in Italy today is (which is most likely where your ancestors came from)…
http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turismo- ... oni-italia
Just type in the surname where it says “Cerca un cognome”

This is also the web site for lDS that may help....
https://familysearch.org/

You can do a One and the Same petition at any time. But probably best to wait until you have all your documents to see what other documents you want to mention in your petition that you need corrected but for whatever reason, can not amend.

Thanks for the response- I tried your link above (www.gens.info) and I was not really sure how it could help. I will look into it further from home where I can use translation software. GGF's ship manifest just lists "Italy", I have made some assumptions about him and made inquiries based on these but no luck so far.

I have spent many hours on familysearch.org.

No, I don't believe he lived anywhere before NYC, all his documents support NYC, his parents were married in NYC and his mom died in NYC when he was 8 so.

But I appreciate all the thoughts as I am needing new directions to research.

[kontessa]

What about your GGM...do you have any death, marriage or birth records for her? Perhaps her history can give you a clue to information about your GGF.

Is it possible that they could have both returned to Italy (or somewhere else), until they re-appeared in the 1910 federal census?

There are NYS census records from 1905, 1915 and 1925...have you searched these as well?

How do you know with certainty that your GF was born in the US? May sound like a silly question, but what records do you have? Any SS records, hospital records, school records etc that provide any insight?

Also, why go to the trouble and expense of a judicial finding for your GF before you have nailed down with certainty the proof that you need (GGF's birth/baptismal record) for your claim to citizenship? Your GGF is the core of your case, so maybe it might be better to wait on any legal pursuits for GF until you have what you need for GGF? (Just asking/brainstorming, no offense intended by these questions!)

[adelfio]

What dont you leave some names and dates of your GGF, GF and see if people on IG can help you with your records

Marty

[catshouse2]

You need an expert. Have you tried lostquays@gmail.com? SHe is amazing.

I agree- thanks for the referral- I have emailed her today-hopefully I will have better luck with her than all the others I have contacted. Thanks for the guidance!

I emailed her and have received no response- as with most of the other researchers I have contacted. Thanks for your efforts on my behlaf.

[catshouse2]

What about your GGM...do you have any death, marriage or birth records for her? Perhaps her history can give you a clue to information about your GGF.

Is it possible that they could have both returned to Italy (or somewhere else), until they re-appeared in the 1910 federal census?

There are NYS census records from 1905, 1915 and 1925...have you searched these as well?

How do you know with certainty that your GF was born in the US? May sound like a silly question, but what records do you have? Any SS records, hospital records, school records etc that provide any insight?

Also, why go to the trouble and expense of a judicial finding for your GF before you have nailed down with certainty the proof that you need (GGF's birth/baptismal record) for your claim to citizenship? Your GGF is the core of your case, so maybe it might be better to wait on any legal pursuits for GF until you have what you need for GGF? (Just asking/brainstorming, no offense intended by these questions!)

Kontessa-
No offense taken by any of your remarks- I appreciate your input. In response to your questions above:

I have info on GGM- her ship manifest, her marriage cert and death cert. Have used address on MC & DC to try to back into the census looking for them- without success. Their timing is bad- married in 1895, don't find anything in 1900 census and she is dead in 1904- so I am then looking for GF in the 1905 census in his new family location.

Yes, I am certain GF was born and raised in NY. All the documents I have support that. I have a old resume that lists his schooling in NY too. At some point he goes to live with family in NJ but I believe this was after high school and before he entered the Army.

And, finally- I agree GF's BC is the key so I would not start any "one and the same" until I have cleared that hurdle. Just thinking ahead.

[catshouse2]

What dont you leave some names and dates of your GGF, GF and see if people on IG can help you with your records

Marty

Ok, I'm going to take Marty up on his suggestion and put it out there for everyone- maybe those that are more experienced would take a stab at the census for me.

I have a number of addresses and names that I researched attempting to locate my GF- in some instances I could not even identify the address in the census to make sure he was not there. So an additional set of eyes would be great.

Following are the details as cut and dry as possible;
1. GGF- Antonio Fiumefreddo- born 1869 +/-, immigrated 08/1895, married 10/1895- trail cold after marriage. Parents- Andrea Fiumefreddo & Francesca Utiella, siblings- unknown

2. GGM- Anastasia Ciringione Fiumefreddo- born 1874 +/-, immigrated ?, married 10/1895, gave birth to GF 06/1896, died 03/1904. Parents- Anthony Ciringione & Vitta Catalano, sibilings- Anthony Ciringione (aka Tommy Ross), Mary Ciringione, Antonetta Ciringione, Pietro Ciringione.

3. GF- Charles Henry Seifred- born 06/01/1896, probably baptised in an italian family name of Andrea Fiumefreddo, draft card, enlistment and discharge papers list him as Charles Scuifred. Legally changes name to Charles Henry Seifred in 04/1920. Marries 06/1922, has 2 children- William Charles in 1925 and Ronald Henry in 1933. Death in 1962. He is found in NY 1910 census listed as Charles Ciringione, grandson to Antonio Ciringione. Listed in NYC directories in 1915 as Charles Ciringione working as a barber with his uncle Peter.

Addresses of interest;
437 W. 54th NY- listed on 1895 marriage cert of Anastasia and Antonio- checked 1900 census in ED 409

437 W. 54 th St NY- address on 1895 marriage certificate- checked 1905 NY census ED 17/7, 17/10, 17/11, 17/12, 29/1, 29/5, 29/6 for AC & AF- correct ED is 17/12

99 Tillary St.NY- address on death certificate for AC- checked 1900 census ED 33 & 34, correct ED is 33
41 Willow St. NY- this address is on CHS draft card dated 06/05/17 checked 1910 census ED 1196 copies too poor to read on ancestry.

41 Willow St. NY- checked ED 624, 640, 655, 658, 677, 682- checked 1910 census correct ED seemed to be 682- could not find a #41.

520 Fulton St. NY- checked 678, 680, 677, 674- checked 1900 census- this address CHS is found in 1910 w/ his GF & GM but this is before his mother's death so he should have been with her some place- did not find #520 at all

11 Rivington St. NY- checked 1900 census- 11 Rivington St. ED 122,129, 182, 183 in Manhattan NY- found it in ED 122- all Russians and Germans

11 Rivington St. NY- checked 1905 NY census- 1905 NYS census- ED 6/9, 6/15, 8/11- could not find 11

52 Chrystie St. NY- checked 1900 census- did not find #52

Thanks to all who bother to read this let alone try to work any of it. I am one exhausted girl.

[kontessa]

Some more questions...if GGM died when GF was 8 years old, GGF may have remarried. Could GGF have started a new family elsewhere? Could your GF and/or any of his siblings been left to be raised by other family members, friends, neighbors, foster parents - hence the strange change in names? Have you tried searching for any Seifred's in NYC?

[catshouse2]

Some more questions...if GGM died when GF was 8 years old, GGF may have remarried. Could GGF have started a new family elsewhere? Could your GF and/or any of his siblings been left to be raised by other family members, friends, neighbors, foster parents - hence the strange change in names? Have you tried searching for any Seifred's in NYC?

Kontessa,
It is said that GGF abandoned the family early on. I doubt they would have divorced (catholics that they wrre) so yes, I think it likely he started over, especially after GGM died. No death records found match even somewhat closely to suspected birth year.

GF was raised by his GM (Vita Catalono Ciringione), in NY and then in Hoboken, NJ. Where the family had numerous businesses. The move to Hoboken was some where around 1915. I think he was commuting to school if at all. He was an only child of this union. I have searched all names in the mix. I believe Seifred is made up, dont know where Scuifred came from. He refers to his father as " Henry Freddo" on one of his documents so there are a number of really wierd name issues- thus the need for a one and the same eventually.

[adelfio]

I see that researching the census Antonio Ciringione father of Anastasia Ciringione wifes name was Vincenza
Do you have papers showing his name change?
Also Ronald H. Seifred
Last Residence:28461 Southport, Brunswick, North Carolina
Born:7 Oct 1933
Died:22 May 2006
State (Year) SSN issued:Pennsylvania (Before 1951)

1930 United States Federal Census
Name:William Seifred
Gender:Male
Birth Year:abt 1926
Birthplace:Michigan
Race:White
Home in 1930:
Stewart Manor, Nassau, New York
Marital Status:Single
Relation to Head of House:Son
Father's Name:Chas Seifred
Father's Birthplace:New York
Mother's name: Emma Seifred
Household Members:
Name Age
Chas Seifred 33
Emma Seifred 32
William Seifred 4

Marty

[adelfio]

How did you get your info of the parents of GG grandfathers

Marty

[catshouse2]

I think you are asking where i got my Great grandparents, parents names? From my Great grandparents marriage cert.