Eligibility and Documentation Questions

[Savio]

Hello:

I haven’t posted in a while, but back when I did, everyone was extremely helpful and friendly. Since I last posted I was able to uncover some more information that leads me to believe that I may be eligible for Italian citizenship; however, I wanted to post here to get the panel’s opinion.

My Great-Grandfather (Alfonso Fratti) was born in Verica (Verica frazione di Pavullo nel Frignano) near Modena in 1870. My Great-Grandmother (Teresa Donini Fratti) was born in Verica in 1886. They got married in Verica in 1906. They moved to the U.S. in 1906-ish. My Grandfather was born in Illinois in 1908. My mother was born in 1940. My Great-Grandparents naturalized in 1942. I was born in 1974.

I’m slightly confused by the 1948 issue and a woman not being able to pass along citizenship so I don’t know how (or if) that plays a role.

Secondly, either way, I was interested in acquiring my Great-Grandparents’ birth and marriage certificates. Would I contact the Pavullo Comune or the Modena Comune? Also, would you recommend that I handle this myself as opposed to hiring a service? I have seen some form letters on this forum that I could use.

Finally, just a little more information. Assuming that I can get the Italian documents, the problem that I’m going to face is that both my Grandparents (who were born in the United States) do not have birth certificates. I’ve contacted Illinois’ Vital Records Office and they at least have a process to create a Delayed Birth Certificate. It’s just going to take some time and documentation. However, my non-Italian Grandmother who was born in Ohio also doesn’t have a birth certificate, and I haven’t been able to get much information from them about the ability or process to create a birth certificate for a deceased person in Ohio.

Would the Consulate in Miami require documentation for my non-Italian Grandmother? In other words, I wouldn’t be trying to trace anything back through her.

Thank you. Hope everyone’s having a great Father’s Day.

[mler]

According to Italian citizenship law, a woman could not pass citizenship before 1948. This does not apply to you. Your mom was born before 1948, but she inherits through a male line (ggf, gf).

I am not familiar with the Miami consulate, but a missing birth document from the non-Italian line is less likely to be an issue.

Check www.italiancitizenship.freeforums.org There is a section on that site that lists what was and what was not accepted at the various consulates. .

[Savio]

Thank you for your reply and for the information. I will spend some time looking at the forum you suggested. I never thought that I would have this much trouble acquiring the more recent U.S. documents for my Grandparents, but it's going to be difficult. It looks like I will need to create a birth certificate for my Grandpa (if possible) in Illinois and then I just found out yesterday that Illinois will not release a certified copy of the marriage certificate except to my Grandparents, who are both deceased. I'm sure there's some way around this, but it's just going to take time to research, and I haven't even tried to get the Italian documents yet. In any case, thank you again for your help.

[KarenChristino]

Savio,

I had the same issues as you do. I was anxious about getting the Italian documents, but they were one of the easiest things to obtain since the Italian records are generally much better kept than the American ones from that time. If you've had some Italian (and even if you haven't) you can easily find templates to write to the comune yourself.

I'd collect as many documents as you can to support your GF's delayed birth record. Sometimes these old documents are misspelled or misfiled, so I'd guess there's also a chance you may yet find it. In any event, you should at least make an initial request for a search in order to obtain a "no records found" letter, which you can use for the delayed birth record application. Then collect his baptism record, Social Security application, marriage record, death record, a Will or anything else you can think of that gives his name and birth date along with his parents (like your great-grandparents' naturalization record, which may list their children).

I'm not familiar with Illinois, but I'd also be surprised if you or your mother wouldn't be eligible to obtain your grandparents' marriage record if you provide documentation, particularly since they were married such a long time ago.

Karen