Need some help please, with translation -Birth Acts

[Emmy]

Hi everyone
There are some questions I'd like to ask relating to these birth acts. (Joyce (jcsm400) will be posting the links here very soon)

On the index for Francesca's birth act, February,1861, there is a word above the mother's name, which is Pasqua, which looks like 'menica' and in the end column is the word 'naturale' any significant meaning?

On the birth acts does it give the actual place where the mother lives or is it just general e.g Sant'Elia. On Francesca's birth act just below where there is no mention of the father-it says something like "della casa S'proprra alitazione" -is this where Francesca was born?

At the bottom of Francesca's birth/baptismal record I can make out my grandfather's name - GiovanniBattista di Filippis and a two dates- one I think is 1881 and the other 1884 I thought one might be the date of their marriage? the other date ?? The same dates are on my grandfathers birth act -GiovanniBattista di Filippis 1853.

My biggest problem is understanding why there is another birth act for a brother,born 1860, with exactly the same name as my grandfather, or could I be reading it wrongly? I know this could happen if a child died the next could be given that name but my grandfather was alive in 1860!?
Or could it be there was a different mother? ( On most of the documents I can make out, after the father's name- words which I think means -legitimate husband, but I cant make out those words on the 1860 birth act. for the second Giovanni) Hoping some kind person will give me some help here.

To everyone and especially Joyce, many many thanks for all the work you are doing for me- its very much appreciated.
God Bless
Emmy

[suanj]

Hi everyone
There are some questions I'd like to ask relating to these birth acts. (Joyce (jcsm400) will be posting the links here very soon)

On the index for Francesca's birth act, February,1861, there is a word above the mother's name, which is Pasqua, which looks like 'menica' and in the end column is the word 'naturale' any significant meaning?

Domenica di Pasqua? easter sunday; naturale=natural

On the birth acts does it give the actual place where the mother lives or is it just general e.g Sant'Elia. On Francesca's birth act just below where there is no mention of the father-it says something like "della casa S'proprra alitazione" -is this where Francesca was born?

nella casa di sua propria abitazione=in residence's house

At the bottom of Francesca's birth/baptismal record I can make out my grandfather's name - GiovanniBattista di Filippis and a two dates- one I think is 1881 and the other 1884 I thought one might be the date of their marriage? the other date ?? The same dates are on my grandfathers birth act -GiovanniBattista di Filippis 1853.

I need of to read the act

My biggest problem is understanding why there is another birth act for a brother,born 1860, with exactly the same name as my grandfather, or could I be reading it wrongly? I know this could happen if a child died the next could be given that name but my grandfather was alive in 1860!?
Or could it be there was a different mother? ( On most of the documents I can make out, after the father's name- words which I think means -legitimate husband, but I cant make out those words on the 1860 birth act. for the second Giovanni) Hoping some kind person will give me some help here.

ditto as above

To everyone and especially Joyce, many many thanks for all the work you are doing for me- its very much appreciated.
God Bless
Emmy

Emmy post here the image of act, otherwise don't is possible to help.. regards, suanj

[jcsm400]

Hi everyone,

Here are all the views that Emmy sent for the these birth acts. Remember, she is taking digital pictures of the film, since her FHC has no copying equipment......so if you can't read something, please let me know & will try again with Nuccia's and/or Maria's help.....will also take suggestions on how to do better!

Francesca's birth act

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3867 ... cabast.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3867 ... cabast.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2118/f ... 8615gu.jpg

Partial of Francesca's birth act:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2758 ... astian.jpg

Francesca's birth index:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5426 ... 8612xe.jpg

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4629 ... escaba.jpg

Giovan's birth act 1853

http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/5199 ... 8534np.jpg

Giovan's 1853 baptismal record

http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/4355 ... e18533.jpg

Giovan's 1860 birth act

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/3756/b ... van7bk.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1857 ... van6va.jpg

Hope I got them all...with the correct info!

Joyce

[suanj]

abt this http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3867 ... cabast.jpg


are wrote that in the 17 feb 1861, hours 24.00, was born from Pasqua Bastianello a female child (Francesca Bastianello); no father name.... etc.. whitnesses name and profession etc..

this is illegible
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2758 ... astian.jpg

this:
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4629 ... escaba.jpg
the "menica" is no menica, but however another illegible word, and " di Pasqua", mean daughter of Pasqua, naturale word is about the birth, because the child don't have the father name, so in Italy we say: figlio naturale for to say born out of marriage, illegitimate or unknown father... the other pictures are illegible, so small.. regards, suanj

[Emmy]

Many thanks Joyce for posting the links and Many thanks to you too Suanj, for trying to help.
It's just a pity they didn't have the facility for putting the images onto C.D.at the FHC. I know it is kind of asking the impossible when the images are not very clear.
Any ideas as to what the two dates are at the bottom of Francescas 1861 birth act (1881 and 1884)?
I had an idea that Francesa was illegitimate, because it seems that she would never tell the the family anything about the past. My cousin has told me that when his father had asked about the past in Italy, my grandmother had said to him, "better not to go there", and she would say no more.
It doesn't upset me at all that she was illegitimate, they must have hard times then, I only wish they could be here now so I could make things better for them.

I have posted the letter to the priest at San Biagio requesting copies of 'Stato delle Anime' for the years Riccardo advised and I have enclosed a cheque to cover costs, a self addressed envelope and two international coupons for return postage, so hopefully he'll send a reply.
many Thanks again for trying to help
God Bless
Emmy

[jcsm400]

Is this any better?????

Top of 1st image:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6638/scan00032hn.jpg

Bottom:
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/8282/scan00042ph.jpg


Emmy,

Don't give up yet! Will keep trying & call in help if need be.

nonna j

[Emmy]

Hi Nonna J.
(I love your new signature- better than mine I get Granny Bengy- they named me after my wee dog)

I wont give up Joyce, I've been at this for 30 years and I wont let it beat me, but I feel I am putting everyone to a lot of trouble. I really dont know how I can thank you all properly for all the help I've had already, it just means so much to me to try to find out when and why they came here and to discover if I have any far off relations still living there, but I need to know the family history first before I can start looking for them. But even just to find their birth acts after all this time even if I dont understand all of what's there is a great achievement and I wouldnt have found them without everyones help. Your'e all fantastic people.

As for my father's brother Michelangelo- he seems to just have disappeared off the face of the earth!! I still havent had any replies to the letters I sent to USA re the addresses I was given from Marisa. -But I'm going to concentrate on one thing at a time just now- I take him onboard again later on.

Yes Joyce that image is clearer thanks again
(Glad to hear that Tyler is progressing and putting on weight, bet you feel better about that. Pity they're a distance away, know how you feel, my daughter and husband and Children moved to France last year and I feel it's the other end of the earth, thank goodness for 'Skype' which I downloaded for free and we can talk for as long as we like and it FREE.)

God Bless
Emmy

[suanj]

Is this any better?????

Top of 1st image:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6638/scan00032hn.jpg

Bottom:
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/8282/scan00042ph.jpg


Emmy,

Don't give up yet! Will keep trying & call in help if need be.

nonna j

Hi Joyce this pictures already leggible, I no translate all words because are the same on all birthact, here are wrote ignoto Padre, that mean unknown father.. the other names are about the osthetric and withnesses and no more info helpful or interesting.. about the date 1881 and 1884 normally in this coloumn are the marriage notations, i read Francesca Bastianello and Giovanni de Filippis, but I cannot say more because the handwriting is so hard, but normally are the marriage note..... regards suanj

[Emmy]

Hi Suanj
I thought that might be the marriage date - 1881- and I have ordered another 'marriage film' from LDS beginning 1880-1889. The one I had only went up to 1879,It had beeen written on another certificate that they were married in 1879 but that date is obviously wrong because I couldnt find it on the 'film' I had. I still have the films of the birth acts yet and I'm going tomorrow again to the FHC. I think I'll try to trace just the 'handwritng' on the documents that seem relevant to the information I want. I think the tracing comes out clearer that the digital camera pictures. Do you think this may work? Have you any other suggestions what I could try?
Many thanks again Suanj
God Bless
Emmy

[jcsm400]

Redo of image 231

Top:
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4850/scan00018or.jpg

Bottom:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8854/scan6xe.jpg


Suanj,

If this is better, just give me image # you want redone, if no better I call in help!
Thanks for your patience & help.
Joyce

[jcsm400]

Hi Emmy,

I was so busy trying to get clearer images, that I missed your post!
I'm really glad that you are finding info for your family and that I have been able to help in my own small way.

You sure do have perseverance......30 years to get this far....just can't image how people did genealogy years ago, before computers! Don't think I would have had the patience to write different places, wait & wait & wait, only to get a "no records found" reply.

Yes, I am relieved that Tyler is on the mend.....really had no doubt that all would be ok, but it was stressful for my daughter, which she didn't need...being a new mother is stressful enough!

Daughter & s-i-l gave my the link for "Skype" when I was up there. Wish it had been available when my daughter was in China for a year (my phone bill exceeded the national debt). Need to signup & get the equipment so I can "see" Tyler anytime. Since he wasn't due til the 23rd, I had it all planned out to be up there next week, so hubby & I are going back up....Looking forward to cuddling him again!

Michelangelo who? Do we have this info?

Anyway, we WILL (hopefully)get the records translated for you!

God bless you, Emmy.

Hugs,
nonna j

ps. I like my new signature, too (for my friends)....Wonder what Ty will end up calling me? My other grandson calls me either nana or grandma.

[suanj]

hi Emmy and Joyce, what I understand is a marriage notation made in:


" the.... 5 May 1889 by istance of spouse Giovanni Battista de Filippis with Francesca Bastianello married in 28 jan(gennaio) 1884 ..so seem me but is so hard to read very well! regards, suanj

[Emmy]

Hi Suanji and Nonna J.,

I've been back at the FHC today and I find I'm beginning to get to know where to look for the relevant information.

Thanks Suaji, but the date couldn't have been 1889 because my father was born in London in 1887 I thought it was a 9 too at first but I wonder if it was a 'fancy' number 1? 1881?

I took a magnifying glass with me today and it helped a lot.
I have discovered my Great grandmother had another illegitimate daughter in 1864 it said -femina- and the name given to the child was Bofa or Bosa but I have never heard that Christian name before - Have I got it wrong?

Now I know what 'incerto padre and naturale' means it is becoming easier to understand.

Sorry about all these questions but the films have to go back next week.

On most of the birth acts it says that Domenico states that Maria Giuseppa Fionda -sua moglie ligitima but on the birth act for the second child named Giovanno Battista in 1860 it says: 'e nata da Giuseppa Fionda di anni ventotto e di Domenico di Filippis marito della Maria,( using the magnifying glass it looks like that- could this have been written in place of 'moglie ligitima'?) di anni trenta, professione contadino - does this mean farmer?

What does ' come sopra' mean?


What with Edmondo and Marisa giving me computer lessons, Joyce backing me up with posting links- haven't mastered that yet! and Suanji and Riccardo helping with the Italian lessons I'm beginning to feel I'm back at College and really enjoying it. A new learning experience so long as I dont need to sit an exam at the end of it


Thanks a million everyone
God Bless
Emmy xx

[suanj]

it could be 1879? suanj

[suanj]

Bofa or Bosa nO Rosa(rose) suanj