Surname Ciarla/Ciarlo to Charles

[Essgee]

Thanks Valarie.....you are toooooooooo kind!


Now, let's hope she returns to the site and sees it!

Have a great one, Susan

[wldspirit]

Sounds like you had an enjoyable vacation!!!!
And back in time to help with some great research to!!!!
Lee

[bsnclr]

Wow!!!! Okay.... I am starting to get confused and lost......

Let's start with the children of Giuseppe Ciarla & Maria Tamilla[hr].
I thought there were four children born in Italy before migrating to US, according to my father and the 1910 US Census and the ship' manifest (thanks to Susanj & widspirt)
The four children were

Incoronata Maria( 1893); Maria Lucia (1895); Maria Giuseppa(1897); and Raffaele (1900) -my grandfather; then they had two more children in the US; Carmella and John.
[hr]

Second, I want to make sure I am reading Ciarla's family tree correct...

Ramindo Ciarla (1804) is the father of Raffaele Ciarla (1840) Who is Ramndo's wife?

Raffaele (1840) married Antonia di Iulio(1814) and born a son - Raimando Giuseppe Antonia Michele Ciarla. Is Giuseppe have any other siblings? Lenoardo?

Giuseppe married Maria incoronata Pietrollino and had six children;
Incoronata Maria( 1893); Maria Lucia (1895); Maria Giuseppa(1897); and Raffaele (1900) -my grandfather; then they had two more children in the US; Carmella and John.

When Guiseppe and Maria become naturalized their names where changed to Joseph and Mary Charles and their children's names became
Incoronata Maria - Marie
Maria Luica - Lusia
Maria Giuseppa - Mary
Raffaele - Frank


Raffaele/Frank (1900) married Grazia Capaldi in 1929. They had three children, Mary Anne, Francis Joseph (1932) - my father, Patrick.

Francis married Annie Louise Clark from Easely South Carolina in 1955. They had 6 children - John David, Virginia Elizabeth, Marie Jane, Jo Anne, Theresa Francis, Barbara Susan (1969)- that's me!!!

Barbara married Dwight Sinclair in 2002, and have one child Gabrielle Marie (2004)
[hr]
My sister, Theresa, has done family research until Giuseppi and Maria came to America.

I want to take it further and branch off - not only with my grandfather's family but my grandmother's who was also born in Italy and migrated to US as an infant - last name was Capaldi.... that's a different thread I have on this forum........
Thanks so much for the info......

-Barbara

[Essgee]

Hi Barbara:

let me answer your questions:

!. I only had records that went to 1897, therefore, I didn't find the other two children's records. They are not microfilmed...but you can write for this information. So yes, I knew there were two more, but no, I didn't overlook them.

2. Raffaele's parents were Raimondo Ciarlo and Antonio di Iulio.
Raffaele's wife is Maria Incoronata Pietrollina.
Raimondo Giuseppe Antonio Michele Ciarla married Maria Leonarda
Tamilia--and her family is on the other chart.

I am sorry I confused you by doing the charts separately...one chart is
for the family of Giuseppe Ciarla and the other for the family of his wife, Maria Leonardo Tamilia. If you have further difficulty with the pedigree chart, let us know.

3. Yes, there are probably more children. It took almost 3 hours to extract what I did find on the direct line. If I have time, I will check for siblings. The library hours are reduced to almost nothing and I have a lot to look up in other family lines for others.

4. I know the name Ciarla is most often Americanized to the name Charles. This is a change that indicated the desire for a translation of the name into a more "acceptable" name--there was discrimination against Italians. Also, they wanted to become American so badly, they often changed their name to American sounding ones.

The names Joseph and Mary are not real changes, but translations of the names from Italian to English. His entire name would read in English: Raymond Joseph Anthony Michael Charles, something you would recognize from its original form. Like from Raffaele to Ralph.

To be honest, the naturalization process probably didn't change the name...though it might document that change. Rather, they were probably using that form of their last name prior to naturalization. Again, they saw this as a translation for the most part because so many Ciarla names were now Charles in the US. Another family from the same town of Ripabottoni, Campolieto, married into the Altobello family. When they came to America, the names were combined into Campbell---something English sounding and not Italian. This was not just a translation, but an adoption of a new name for the purpose of fitting in. So you see there is a suble difference when you look at "name changes".

5. I would urge you to go to the Family History site that wldspirit mentioned. www.familysearch.org Go to the library info and check out the records they have on hand. I will tell you about the problems getting the Capaldi info in the other message posted about the Capaldi family.

If you have any questions about what I wrote here, things that don't make sense, let me know and I will attempt to clarify even more. If you are not familiar with the 4 or 5 generation pedigree form, I think you need to go to Ancestry and print out a blank chart. Then when you fill the blanks in for this family, the rest will make sense to you.

Have a great day.

[wldspirit]

The microfilm is time intensive work.....a big Thank you Essgee for your wonderful contribution!!!

Ancestry has a great selection of various charts, and for free,
as does the Later Day Saints site:

http://www.ancestry.com/trees/charts/census.aspx?

http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs/st ... &cg4=&cg5=

Hope this is helpful.
wldspirit

[bsnclr]

Thanks so much..... this is more info then I needed to get .....

[daveferro]

Hello,
I was surprised to see the Ciarlo name as that is the name of my foster mother's (who was first cousins with my biological mother) grandmother, Maria Antonia Ciarlo. Her father and son..mom's father...were named Raffaele . Both are buried at St. Joseph Cemetery here in Auburn. My mother says a Frank Charles was a cousin to her father. We only have one photo of her with her son Raffaele (Frank, who was a barber), his wife Maria Concetta Testa Nervina and nieces perhaps in Clyde 1913.

bsnclr is then related to my foster mother. I couldn't wait to tell her about this post.

We have the passports they used on a visit to Ripabottoni stamped 1896 Ellis Island. The written part starts with Ciarlo Maria Antonia di Raffaele, using the maiden name, which caused that name to be registered at Ellis and also in a 20 volume set at Seymour Library called "Italians to America" which goes to 1902, though they spelled her name Carlo.
The three children were Maria Incoronata age 11, Maria Concetta age 8 and Raffaele age 5, who was born in NYC. Their names were Nervino and their father was Pietro. The name was changed to Nervina. We have a billing from his funeral from Antonio Cancro for $45 in 1903.

We have been trying to find where Pietro Nervino and Incoronata, who died in 1900 are buried. I have already talked to Fr. Kelly, the pastor at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church Pleasant and 115 St in Italian East Harlem. He sent copies of baptisms, but we had 2 originals and we really wanted death papers.l

One more document is a membership book from (translated) The Shooting Club of Harlem. Pietro's address on 108th Street is there and printed in the back is a list of members. This time his name is spelled Nervinii.

There is another passport with Nervino Francantonio for May 8, 1896 that we do not know yet.

If you are in Auburn, you probably know my mother Antoinette Nervina Basile. If not, you have relatives here who can be consulted.

Dave Ferro

[Essgee]

Dave....

Here is the info on the death certificate:

Surname Given Name Age Date Certificate # County Born
Nervine Pietro 40 y Nov 30 1902 34042 Manhattan 1861 - 1862

It is possible that it might contain the name of the cemetery.

Also, if the funeral home still operates...or you know where there records might be, they probably can tell you what cemetery as well.

And the date for Francescantonio of May 8, 1896 is his arrival with destination of Providence, RI...many from Ripabottoni went there. I will see if I can find out more info on him for you.

[Essgee]

bsnclr.....

Have now checked the birth records from 1865 to 1878 and only find one additional child born to Raffaele:

7 July 1873 born, Leonardo Ciarla to
Raffaele Ciarla di Raimondo, age 32 and
Maria Incoronato Petrollino fu Giovanni, age 26

Will continue to check. Unfortunately, the indexes don't list parents for these years, so you have to check every Ciarla record...which are like the name Jones in America.....many births.

I will see what I can find next week as well. Have a great one.

[daveferro]

Essgee,
Thank you for the info. My uncle Pete Nervina is the namesake of Pietro and wanted to know where he is buried, so my inqueries. I sent info to Calvary Cem in Queens after calling them: they have microfilm but not computerized yet. I'll call them again next week.

Meanwhile, bsnclr...My mother says she remembers all the names you mentioned, as they lived on Kelsey Street around the corner from her father's barber shop on Columbus Street (renamed from South Division in 1928; many many Italians there).

Another cousin was Incoranata Schallagi, who lived down the street from us.

There are no Capaldis listed in the phone book, but two Tomilios: Michael and Andrew.

I have used the Abruzzo2000 web site to find my grandfather Emilio, but also for the links to other provinces and each has a list of towns to click on and see what they look like, with a page for surnames there and the number of families with that name. I've also use infobel to search for addresses and phone numbers.

I wish you could talk to my mother...she was born in 1913, and remembers the neighborhood and your relatives.

Dave Ferro

[Essgee]

Dave....

I searched for the Nervino/a name when I was at the library today. Pietro doesn't appear to be born in Ripabottoni. I couldn't find anyone with that surname through the records from 1856 to 1866...

Francescantonio that you mentioned stated Ripabottoni was his last residence...but he and Pietro may have been born in another place. It would appear that Pietro may have been married in Ripabottoni, but I don't have records on hand for that year. I am awaiting more micorfilms and I can't recall if I included some marriage records.

If I get a film covering the period of time, I will check for you.

[bsnclr]

Hi Dave:

I am trying to add the branches to the family tree. I am a little lost...(doesn't take much- especially with the family genealogy)..... okay

Correct me if I am wrong or add more info:
Is your fosters mother - grandmother-Maria Antonia Ciarla the daughter of Raffale Ciarlo(b1840) & Maria Incoronata Pietrillino (b1845)? If so then, her siblings would be Lenoardo (b1873) & Ramindo Giuseppe (b1870).

Giuseppe married Maria incoronata Pietrollino and had six children;
Incoronata Maria( 1893); Maria Lucia (1895); Maria Giuseppa(1897); and Raffaele (1900) -my grandfather; then they had two more children in the US; Carmella and John.

When Guiseppe and Maria become naturalized their names where changed to Joseph and Mary Charles and their children's names became
Incoronata Maria - Marie
Maria Luica - Lusia
Maria Giuseppa - Mary
Raffaele - Frank
[hr]
Those are the only two Raffales' I know of in my family. I am just trying to add all this together.

My family is still in Auburn. I was borned, raised, graduated from AHS & CCC. Actually, I will be coming for a visit in late August or early september - state fair time frame.
-Barbara

[bsnclr]

Essgee,

After speaking with Dave.... we may have a common ancestor.... could you find if Raffale Ciarla and Maria Pietrollina had a daughter Maria Antonia Ciarla (Nervino)

Thanks
-Barbara

[Essgee]

I will check. But library closed for the remainder of the week because of the holiday. Will look next week.

Have a great holiday.............

[daveferro]

Esgee,

I finally have images of the passports, baptismal certificates, the undertaker's bill etc at Imageshack, thanks to Nuccia. I will post over in the Ferro, Nervina etc topic as this is Barbara's topic, though she is related: Raffaele Ciarla is the ancestor her family and my foster mom's great-grandfather and Antonia Ciarla Nervino (his daughter) is her grandmother.

Dave