Property in Italy & Scams

[ashlandlee]

A few years ago my Grandpa Pandolfi. Received a letter from Pescasseroli. It said there was a piece of property that if he wanted to claim he would need to contact the letter sender and go to Italy to claim it.

Unfortunately I was not a "decision making" member of our family yet, too young. So, we never contacted the letter sender.

My family determined it was a scam.

Has anyone else seen this kind of stuff before?

I wasn't sure...but then again my great grandpa was the only male son and was born in Pescasseroli.

[suanj]

hmm... it could be a scam or no.... in Italy a heir have 10 years of time for to claim or accepting the heredity... the letter was from a notary? and if yes you searched by internet if this notary really exist...? regards, suanj

[PeterTimber]

Dear Ashlandee to be absolutely sure you can send an e-mail to Sonia Alioto (Italy real estate lawayers in San francisco) at italianlaw@comcast.net free of charge for inquiries. This firm has a website at www.italianlaw.net. =Peter=

[elba]

There are still 20 people with your family name of Pandolfi in Pescasseroli - see the Italian White Pages book
>HERE<.There are two pages covering the 20 names

And if you still have the letter then
>HERE<
are the names and addresses of the 'notaries' listed in Pescasseroli in the Italian Yellow Pages.

Some 'local' investigation initially would I'm sure be easier, and faster, for a notary who is 'in situ' so to speak!

[ashlandlee]

Thank you.

I am impressed with all the information the people on this forum have.

I will visit my grandparents to see where the letter is. Then start from there.

Keeping my figures crossed.

If there is a property, I would assume it is the little farm house that they use to live in. They were farmers.

I always wanted my own farm. Maybe I'll get lucky.

[JamesBianco]

Italian property laws are not like here in the US ...

My Uncle's father had property in Italy, he came to the US not long after his son. He went back just "in the nick of time" as not to lose the land and was beaten almost to death by several of the townsmen. He returned once afterward and only briefly.

When the time is up to claim land in Italy, the town wastes no time in **SPAM** it off. You have to consider Italy is the "old world" and as such has had a growing population (even despite immigration to the USA) new land is a rarity, and when something new arrives on the market....

You can imagine

Suanj said 10 years, if it hasn't yet been 10 years, I would get right on this, and fast.

Jim

[elba]

Thank you.

I am impressed with all the information the people on this forum have.

I will visit my grandparents to see where the letter is. Then start from there.

Keeping my figures crossed.

If there is a property, I would assume it is the little farm house that they use to live in. They were farmers.

I always wanted my own farm. Maybe I'll get lucky.

You should also bear in mind that many people who own(ed) a farmhouse also own(ed) small parcels of land in their area. A good example is the family that I bought my 'farmhouse' from - Over the last two centuries it had been converted from a barn/stable on land that their family had owned since the mid 1500's. My village is small (1020 souls) but this family have small parcels of land dotted all around the area. Even the land attached o my property was 'parcelled' up into three parts two for the young family members to use/build on in the future and one, with the house, to sell. So James is right - 'time IS of the essence'!

So - as a 'rough guide' to consider

If it is less than 10 years since you got the letter:
You still may be in time to file inheritance documents even if the will makes no reference to you. In any event, a title search of the property is required before proceeding.

If it is more than 10years:
It is important to determine if there was/is a will. If a will does exist and doesn't refer to you, you may have lost your right to inherit. But if you were mentioned in the will AND more than twenty years have passed, you must determine that no one else is claiming title to the property by adverse possession.

[ashlandlee]

The story about locals desperate for new property is ...I am not sure what to say. Land in Up State NY is beautiful and reasonably priced. There is bidding wars but not violence.

Life in different countries (or even state to state) can be soooo different. The pressures are different.

The land I am looking into, though is a farm, is now surrounded by ski resorts. It makes me wonder what local people might think if I am able to claim the property. I have not seen anything for sale in the last 2 years.

[italianlaw]

I am just seeing this old message after 8 years. ashlandlee and her family indirectly come to unfounded conclusions and false claims. Obviously there is a complete lack any understanding of Italian law.

We are a group of professionals applying succession law to recover unclaimed and abandoned property throughout Italy. Our office has been operating as an LLC since 2007 with a a few hundred very satisfied, admiring clients who have recovered family properties throughout Italy, obtained unlcaimed money from bank accounts, recieved funds from Italian Insurance companies. etc

For those making comments: how many of you are making statements have a deep knowledge of the Italian laws of adverse possession. (in Italian, Usucapione)? No one. Most statemets regarding statues of limitations are incorrect since there is not just one statue and no one mentions the concept of possession (il possesso), only ONE of the additioanl elements used by the Italian court system in granting or denying a claim for the transfer of title of the property. In other words none of you have attended law school in Italy, yet you draw conclusions without having performed any due diligence. Recall that the author of the message hardly gave enough information that would allow any professional to draw conclusions or conduct further inquiries.

And yes, let's add this while we are at it: a Comune in Italy does not simply appropriate property because no one has paid the taxes or the owners are deceased or the property is unclaimed...... with the exception of cases of eminent domain.

Regarding Jim's comments. Unfounded hot air.

There are 1000s of unclaimed properties in Italy. Just take look at a partial list of families whose descendents outside of Italy never steped forward to claim the Italian property
http://www.landfinder.it/emigrant_abandoned_property_in_Italy.asp

Sonia Alioto
http://www.italianlaw.net
San Francisco & Ferrara, Italy
s.alioto@italianlaw.net
italianlaw@comcast.net

[jennabet]

Hi Sonia, thanks for your expert advice in clarifying this matter. I'm sure you have noticed that there is a lot of mis-information on Italian legalities, particularly concerning citizenship, residence, etc., coming from the "experts" (mostly Americans) in these forums. How they became so "knowledgeable" given the fact they were not born in Italy, did not go to school in Italy and have never even lived in Italy is certainly a mystery.

[jennabet]

In addition, as an Italian who has returned to her ancestral homeland in Italy, I would like to see as many descendants as possible claim the abandoned land of their ancestors rather than have it bought up by British citizens who's long term presence would forever change the Italian culture.

[jennabet]

Not only did ashlandee come to unfounded conclusions and false claims, ashlandee forgot to tell the forum that the weather in upstate New York is atrocious.

[italianlaw]

Jennabet
I agree. No one could have stated the Italian American mindset clearer than you. You seem to have a very clear picture of the situation. Would you write me directly at italianlaw@comcast.net I have a few questions to ask you directly.

Grazie
Sonia Alioto