Researching records further and further back in italy?

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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby ptimber » 31 Dec 2004, 08:34

Dear mfjp he hjas already been advised to go to family search. Grab hold of the "boys" and relax max. Peter
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby JamesBianco » 01 Jan 2005, 14:28

If you have ancestors in Sicily, the mormons have started filming both
the Church and Early Census records (Riveli). For my town of Carini they have church records back to 1692 filmed, and the Riveli back to the 1580's. Thanks to that, I have almost every line in my grandmother's ancestry back to 1650 or before, a few back to circa 1575!! I wish the mainland towns were as well filmed, for example one of my lines goes back to Crispano, near Naples. The mormons havent filmed anything for the town, not even the Stato records. In that case I had to write to the town. They repliled with the marriage I was looking for, so the records exist, the LDS just hasn't filmed.


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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby Essgee » 01 Jan 2005, 17:38

VaDeb wrote:trevisan2

How wonderful for you that you can afford to pay "teams" of researchers to build pedigree charts of the entire parish! Most of us tracing our Italian ancestors do not have this luxury. You also stated that civil records are only available until 1871. This is not true. Many areas (especially in the south) have records back until 1809.

Don't deprive folks the "thrill of the hunt". It is so much more rewarding to discover another generation on your own, rather than just getting some other researchers conclusions in the mail. With the fabulous help available here from Peter, Suanj and others our family genealogies are waiting to be discovered.

Debbie


You are misreprenting the work of experts here. Had it not been for the book "Italian Genealogical Records" by Trafford Cole, I would still be attempting to get the info on relatives via the postal service and the sense of urgency on the part of the Italian civil servant in the communal archives. It was this book that opened my eyes to the Civil Records and to the fact that--in my situation--the LDS had filmed them and made them available for me to research for a small fee.

I strongly believe in the fact that you need to do your own genealogy. And today, unlike even 5 years ago, you can get help from many wonderful people like Peter and Suanj who point you in the right direction and get you off on a positive note. Doing your own makes you aware of everything going on about your ancestor...the history they lived through, the hard times and the good times....where they lived, who they married, and on and on. In the end, you have a feeling for them that cannot come from just listings of names and dates....

But, some history relates here to the availability of records. Italy did not unite until 1870 or so... It was only after 1871 that "ALL" of Italy was required to keep civil records. Up until that point, there were places that were not required to do so, that were not under the domination of administrations that required it...those under the control of Venice, for example. So when someone states that civil records go back to 1871 for Italy.....this is correct. Other areas, such as the south...those under the rule of the Kingdom of Two Sicilies...have civil records that go back much further. These are Napoleonic records, required when Napoleon took over much of Italy and instituted administrative paperwork that required the state to record birth, deaths, and marriages...something that had been the job of the churches. Most of the rest of Italy has civil records that go back to 1809....but some, in other parts of what is now Italy...stopped recording civil records in about 1816 when Napoleon had been defeated and no longer ruled parts of Italy. Most only reconstituted keeping of civil records in the 1860's when most of Italy was united. It only was completed in 1871 when the rest of the territory making up modern day Italy unified with the rest.

So based upon who controlled the territory of your ancestors in the early 1800's you will find the availability of films at the LDS. Yet.....what is missing for most every part of Italy, are church records available to the general public to research. These are not filmed, for the most part. And the likelyhood of you getting to Italy with time enough to research them yourself is minimal.

The original records are not indexed, you must not only be fluent in Church Latin, but with ancient handwritting, etc. The parish priest does not have time to do genealogy for you. And they will not let you at the books yourself unless you can prove you are capable of the research. And then it is a long process. If you have done the civil records in years when there was no index and the handwritting very small, you begin to understand how hard this all is.

At some point, most everyone who wants info in Italy will have to get a professional involved if they want records back as early as possible. There is nothing wrong with this. They provide a service for a fee that consitutes their involvement in your research. And someone who is involved in the interconnection of parish records genealogically speaking had invested time and money in doing what he can for the rest of the genealogy community. You might be able to build a garage on your house, but to build the whole house, you would want an architect. This is no different. A professional has their place as well.

What is a problem is hiring professionals to do what you can do with little more then time and patience. There are those who do take advantage of the basic laziness of many. Many can do their own with just some input from others who have been there and some perseverence on their part. But we all reach a point where I could write till I am blue in the face and not get the information I seek. Then, instead of donating money to the church in Italy in hopes they will some day look for my long lost ancestors, I give the money to a professional who will at least answer my correspondence...that is, of course, if I have taken the time to check his/her credentials to begin with.

So, professionals do not inhibit our ability to do our own research. They just extend our ability to get to info we could not otherwise take advantage of. Yes, it is costly...but not really out of line if that is what we are willing to pay for, to know...just a couple of cable bills or cell phone bills.

Trafford Cole is a giant in Italian Genealogy research. His son Joel continues to help. No, you don't have to hire them or others to do your research. But know that they provide many of the tools a lot of us have used in researching own own Italian roots. They provided the tools necessary to enjoy the "thrill of the hunt".
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby trevisan2 » 01 Jan 2005, 18:11

I was in your **SPAM** some 10 years ago. I contacted some professional genealogy researchers at italroots.com
They live in Padava and can travel all over Italy. Trafford Cole has written several books on researching Italian records and is well known in the genealogy community.
Over the years I would send them $ 500 or what ever I could come up with. It is much cheaper than going there your self
All you need to do is make contact with them and include your names of research, dates of birth and the exact parish or town.

They can quickly take your lines back to the 1600's or earlier
They will also send you copies of the parish records, from which they
extracted the imformation from.
I was able to get all four of my grandparents direct lines researched. Some lines are incomplete, becaused of various reasons. immigration, incomplete records or they came from somewhere else.
Good luck.
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby ptimber » 01 Jan 2005, 18:31

Thank you all!!!!!!Peter
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby trevisan2 » 01 Jan 2005, 18:44

I have tried many methods of researching my Italian ancestors.

I would like to make if very clear. . . everyone can do their research according to their own wishes.

Personally, I do not like writting letters to the Stato and waiting months for a reply.
Lately, I am doing very detailed research, I have been doing a study of the first and last name evolution through the centuries.I found that my own name David, never was used until the late 1800's

My research included some 15,000 names in one parish alone. Nothing is more thrilling to see on the film, your own ancestors!!!

I am also involved in microfiming parish records. I have 15 parishes in my collection. These records will be sharred with persons that share the same interests as myself. They are not for the general public.
Those that are not interested in my research, can GO FIND THEIR OWN RECORDS.
I have eaten at the tables at the priests homes when I am microfiming. I have seen tears of joy in there eyes and words of appreciation for helping their parish perserve their records.
One priest gave me access to the records, after kicking out the researchers. He then published my picture and a story in his parish newspaper, thanking me for perserving his records.
Trevisn2
Researching in the provience of Treviso, Italy, Provaglio Sopra, Val Sabbia of Brescia.
Domege di Cadore

Forno di Rivara, TO, Canischio, TO

Surnames Melchiori of Oderzo, TV, Vendrame of TV, Rossi of Rai di San Polo, Bonotto of TV.
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby wldspirit » 02 Jan 2005, 00:08

Has Talamello in Pesaro Urbino been microfilmed ?

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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby ptimber » 02 Jan 2005, 00:18

nope! Peter
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby woodhouse08031961 » 07 Jan 2005, 13:53

It's true that doing own research is more exiting than asking somebody else to it ...
true also that is much longer...
after several months of writing, calls.... I've just received from the church of San Salvatore Monferrato an amount of papers concerning my father family (mother side) retracing all my ancestors until 1662 and they even gave me the promess to do more as soon as they can....

true also that a lot of comuni and churches don't even answer to your mails.... but I can assure you that after having received 45 letters from me they want to get rid of me and they send me the documents I need!

About the LDS.... I have asked for microfilms here in Luxembourg several months ago.... still waiting .... but I continue research on my own.... by the time I received them they will be obsolete.....

La pazienza è la virtu' di chi vuole riuscire.....
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Re: Researching records further and further back in italy?

Postby ptimber » 07 Jan 2005, 20:34

I urge you to e-mail or perhaps even call them on the telephone and express your indignation at the abuse you been subjected to with the delay of the micorfilm....here in the states we say "bust their .......s". Peter
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