Caminitti Surname & Family

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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 17:22

Marty,

For the birth certificates, i read 9 April for Filippo and 3 something for Felicia. Would you agree? I can't tell what the month says for Felicia. Can you tell what that word is?

And thank you again for ALL of your help!

-chris
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby adelfio » 20 Jun 2013, 17:28

cdar1231 wrote:Marty,

For the birth certificates, i read 9 April for Filippo and 3 something for Felicia. Would you agree? I can't tell what the month says for Felicia. Can you tell what that word is?

And thank you again for ALL of your help!

-chris

April 3rd


Marty
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 17:47

Marty,

You are very generous with your time. I, and my Caminiti kin, are in your debt! Thank you very much.
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2013, 17:49

adelfio wrote:This a marriage bann posted for 3 weekends so if there is anyone who opposed the marriage
INDEX#19
1881 March 28th before the civil official of San Filippo de Mela appeared Filippo Caminitti age 22 manufacturer residing in San Filippo de Mela son of Domencio Caminitti age 53 manufacturer residing in the same town and deceased Maria Trifiro to marry Felicia Gallo age 22 reaper daughter of Francesco Saverio Gallo age 53 farmhand and Maria Formica reaper they also resided in the same town
The bottom written part says Filippo's mother was deceased at the time of the marriage publication and his father gave his consent
The 2 witnesses Giuseppe Brigiano age 60 and Stanasio Toti age 60 witnessed the recording of the record and they signed the record with Filippo and the civil official

MArty



This statement I have highlighted in red is incorrect. If you look in the margin of the record, you will see that the marriage publications were only posted for only two consecutive Sundays and three additional days. They were not posted for three weekends. The first publication was posted on the door of the town hall on Sunday April 3rd. After a week, it was replaced by the posting of the 2nd marriage publication (these banns were also read aloud to the community, as a lot of people were illiterate and could not read them). The second publication, which was posted on April 10th, was only posted for three complete days. So by the 14th, which was a Thursday, there were no publications posted. After this date, assuming there were no objections to the marriage, or reasons why the couple should not be married, the actual marriage could take place.

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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 18:12

Erudita,

Thank you for your correction. I had no idea of the process. That's very interesting.

-chris
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby erudita74 » 20 Jun 2013, 19:54

cdar1231 wrote:Erudita,

Thank you for your correction. I had no idea of the process. That's very interesting.

-chris


You're very welcome, Chris. I do want to clarify something though. There were differences in procedure when it was a church marriage as opposed to a civil one. For the church marriage, the Council of Trent in the mid 1500s, established that three banns rather than two, as in the case of a civil ceremony, be declared. These church banns, instead of being written and posted for public view, were formally announced at three consecutive Sunday Masses, or at the Mass on a religious holiday. If there was a premarital pregnancy involved, then only one bann or announcement would be made so that the marriage could be expedited. But, in order to eliminate one of the church banns, a special request had to be made to the presiding bishop, as only he, and not the parish priest, could make the decision to eliminate one of the banns.

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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 20:14

Dear Erudita,

Thank you again for the information and the clarification. Let me ask you a question based on the information you provided: is the marriage considered legal only after the banns have been posted? If so, what would be considered the "date" of the marriage, the date of the "ceremony" or the date of the final bann? Finally, is this process the same all over Italy or does it vary regionally? And is it still this way today? If not, when did it stop?

Thank you again for this fascinating glimpse at Italian life

Best wishes,

-chris
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby adelfio » 20 Jun 2013, 21:53

Heres their marriage act 1881 Dec 18 INDEX#50 Filippo and Felicia
Italy, Messina, Messina, ...on (Tribunale), 1866-1939
San Filippo del Mela
Matrimoni 1866-1894
Image 1424 of 2241
PAGE LINK TO MARRIAGE ACT
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... c=14215591

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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 23:03

Thanks again, Marty!

So more to my questions above (to Erudita): what is the difference between a record in the "Atti di Matrimonio" and the "Pubblicazioni di Matrimonio" and what date is the marriage date?
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby adelfio » 20 Jun 2013, 23:10

1881 Dec 18 was the marriage date
Heres some reading about records for you
PG LINK
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ ... al_Records
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 20 Jun 2013, 23:36

Marty,

That is a great resource. I had no idea. Thank you!

-c
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby erudita74 » 21 Jun 2013, 13:56

cdar1231 wrote:Dear Erudita,

Thank you again for the information and the clarification. Let me ask you a question based on the information you provided: is the marriage considered legal only after the banns have been posted? If so, what would be considered the "date" of the marriage, the date of the "ceremony" or the date of the final bann? Finally, is this process the same all over Italy or does it vary regionally? And is it still this way today? If not, when did it stop?

Thank you again for this fascinating glimpse at Italian life

Best wishes,

-chris


Chris

Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you yesterday.

The marriage-whether a civil ceremony or a church ceremony-could not take place until after the banns had been posted/read and no objections were found. So the date of the actual marriage would always be sometime after the date of the last bann. Marriages also almost always took place on a Sunday. The process was the same all over Italy and is in still in effect today, although I believe that people in Italy now sometimes marry on days other than Sundays.

You may want to read the following concerning marriages in Italy today:
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship ... p_754.html

Persons wishing to be married in Italy must appear with two witnesses and make a declaration of their intention to marry before the Ufficiale di Stato Civile (Civil Registrar) of the city or town where the marriage is to take place. At the time of making their declaration the couple must present all required documents (see below). Following the declaration it is usually necessary for banns, or marriage announcement, to be posted at the local comune (city hall) for two consecutive Sundays before the marriage occurs if one of the parties is Italian or if the U.S. citizen is a resident of Italy. However, banns are waived by the Ufficiale di Stato Civile if neither party to the marriage is Italian and neither is residing in Italy.

On the fourth day following the second Sunday on which the banns are posted (or any time after banns have been waived) the couple may be married, either in a civil ceremony or a religious one. A civil ceremony is performed by the Ufficiale di Stato Civile or one of his assistants.

RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES: If a religious ceremony is performed by a Roman Catholic priest, a separate civil ceremony is unnecessary but the priest must register the marriage with the Ufficiale di Stato Civile in order for it to be legal.

I will not be available the rest of today so, if you have additional questions, please be patient.

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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Jun 2013, 15:50

Erudita,

Thank you so much for that information. That's very interesting and something i was completely unaware of.

Thanks again and enjoy your day!

-chris
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby cdar1231 » 21 Jun 2013, 17:26

Hi Marty,

I would beg your indulgence once again. Based on all the wonderful information you provided, I wanted to see if I could take the Caminiti branch of the family back even further and thought I’d look for the birth record for Domenico and his father Filippo using the antenati web page you sent. However, I find that I have no clue how to use it. How can I get started?

Thank you again for all your help!

-chris
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Re: Caminitti Surname & Family

Postby adelfio » 21 Jun 2013, 20:47

Unfortunately the civil records only go from 1834 to 1865 of San Filippo del Mela on antenati web page


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