Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2012, 12:14

Hi Mari,
your Alphonse Sibilia( Francesco son) when was or is born?
After on or after 1930?
the only Francesco Sibilia, italian, living in 1930 in Newark was born on 16 apr 1895 ( or 15 jun 1895; discrepancy abt day and month of birth; no doubts that is the same person)

U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
about Francesco Gerard Sibilio
Name: Francesco Gerard Sibilio
Birth Date: 16 Apr 1895
Birth Place: Italy
Residence: Essex, New Jersey
Race: White


Image


World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Frank Sibilia
Name: Frank Sibilia
City: Newark
County: Essex
State: New Jersey
Birthplace: Italy
Birth Date: 15 Jun 1895
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1712360

born in Teora (Avellino, IT)
Image
in 1930 census he lived with wife Mary, daughters: Mary, Julia, and Rose(?? unreadable)

1930 United States Federal Census
about Frank Sibilio
Name: Frank Sibilio
Birth Year: abt 1895
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Home in 1930: Newark, Essex, New Jersey
View Map
Relation to Head of House: Head
Occupation:

Education:

Military Service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Frank Sibilio 35
Image

death:
First Name: Francesco
Middle Name:
Last Name: Sibilio
Name Suffix:
Birth Date: 16 April 1895
Social Security Number: -----------
Place of Issuance: New Jersey
Last Residence: Belleville, Essex, New Jersey
Zip Code of Last Residence: 07109
Death Date: December 1972
Estimated Age at Death: 77


obviously .. I cannt know if this Frank Sibilia in Newark is Your Francesco Sibilia; surely it is not Jack ancestor.... because him Francesco was born on 1881 abt... and we know not the right surname spelling, Sibilia is a probable spelling as a well Cibella, Cibelli, Zibella, Scibelli etc...
if you can add more details maybe I can help better..
regards,
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 27 Feb 2012, 17:12

Suanj,
Alphonse had to have been born before 1930. I don't have any idea on his birthday but my father ( alphonse's youngest son) was born in 1943. I don't know francesco's wives names. But i know alphonse'wife (my grandmother) was Mary.
I'm sorry I know I'm not much help. You see my parents divorced when i was a child and my fathers family cut me out because they didn't like my mother. I've only met my father once. But i am in contact with my two much older sisters. They are the only ones that speak to me and they are the ones that give me info on tge family.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 27 Feb 2012, 17:20

Francesco Sibilio was the last name you had on the list above. I believe that is the one I'm in relation to. I have an aunt jean. My fathers sister. Alphonse child. She still to this day lives in belleville nj. I tracked her down recently even though she still wants nothing to do with me. I do have her address in belleville nj. I also know belleville nj is where my father lived before he moved to Florida. I don't know if that helps at all. But putting two and two together its what makes sence.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 27 Feb 2012, 19:11

marisibilia wrote:Suanj,
Alphonse had to have been born before 1930. I don't have any idea on his birthday but my father ( alphonse's youngest son) was born in 1943. I don't know francesco's wives names. But i know alphonse'wife (my grandmother) was Mary.
I'm sorry I know I'm not much help. You see my parents divorced when i was a child and my fathers family cut me out because they didn't like my mother. I've only met my father once. But i am in contact with my two much older sisters. They are the only ones that speak to me and they are the ones that give me info on tge family.


it are jusr 2 Alphonse Sibilia born in Newark, NJ:

1. b. 29 Mar 1895 son of Guglielmo/William & Giovannina Sibilia; d. May 1986 - Orange, Essex,NJ

2. b. 23 Apr 1909 son of Isidor R (Isidoro in italian language) & Vincenza Sibilia; d. Oct 1963 NJ
Guglielmo and Isidoro was born in Lioni (Avellino province, IT); they was brothers and sons of Alfonso Sibilia b. 1840 abt

Nobody Alphonse Sibilia son of Francesco Sibilia... was born before of 1930....
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 28 Feb 2012, 00:28

Hi Saunj and mari sibilia,
last week Saunj sent me information on Alfonso Sibilia coming into the country and going to Newark. I looked up the manifest link saunj sent me and then looked up the census record for Alfonso and family. I found the same as saunj wrote in the previous posts. Here is some additional information on the family on the census records.
Alfonso shown as a widower and with his daughter Fortuata-15-arrive in NY in 1898. It shows he was here before that and that this is her first arrival. He is going to his son's on 8th ave very close to where my Francesco Siibilia said he lived in 1904.

The 1900 census shows them living on 8th ave, newark:
Alfonso Sibilia, head, widower b 1840 previously arriving 1892.Occupation Confectionary
Guglielmo/william, son b 1875 married 6 years. Occupation Barber
Genyannina (bsd spelling on form) wife of William b 1875
Frenzino (bad writing on form) son of William and wife b1896
Filamenia (this must be Francesca) Alfonso's daughter 16 years old.

The 1910 census shows them at a different street:
William, head, insurance broker
Giovanna, wife
Children: Alfonso, Marie, Rocco, Joseph, Orlando and Mafaldo(bad writing, can't read) a daughter

The 1920 census shows 2 Sibilia families living at 176 Parker(again bad writing-Iam not sure this is correct.)The building holds 8 families.
first family: Giovanna, widow, head
Children:Alfoso, Rocco, Joseph, Orlando, Victorio(?)
second family: Isidor Sibilia, head 42 yrs old, arrived 1872, Occupation real estate
Vincenza, wife 35 years old, arrived 1870.
Sons Alfonso and William
Census indexes show 10-12 Sibilia's in NJ in the early nineteen hundreds.

Concerning my Francesco, and we don't know the true spelling of his last name, Sibilia seems the most likely so far,the Grandchildren say the parents talked about him coming home to his wife one day and saying he killed a man in Newark and had to leave. He said he was gong to Canada. Saunj and I thought that was probably not where he went. She showed he could have been in New York with anotheer family. I found a Francesco Sibilia in California but it isn't him. A second family in the Newark-New York area is a distinct possibility.
What are your thoughts about the above information? Have you searched the US census records?

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 28 Feb 2012, 04:48

Jack,
I have not looked at any census records. But Ok I talked to my mother and sister. New information: your thoughts and info on him going to Newark ny is very good possibility. In the "second family" that I told you about I have a cousin named Ed Marinaro. He was the grandson of francesco Sibilia. And ed went to school (Cornell university) in new York. He graduated from there and became an actor on hill street blues. Alphonse and mary Sibilia had 4 children, roberto or Robert Sibilia ( not sure of the spelling) son Nicholas Sibilia son jean Sibilia daughter ( now married jean mundy) and william sibilia youngest son ( my father). My father William Sibilia has no birth certificate. He was born at home to alphonse and Mary Sibilia on September 26,1942. Birthdate could be wrong he always said there were two different years that he'd been given for his birth don't really know which but thats the one that makes the most sence. I've read most of your earlier posts and all of our correspondence to my mother. She believes from what she's been told and how things are matching that we are researching the same francesco Sibilia. She also told me that alphonse Sibilia was not born in the united states. He was born in Sicily. She doesn't know what town. Or when he came to the states. He was born before 1930 but don't have a birth date. Snd the fact that you or I can't find a birth record for him doesn't surprise her because it was very common in those days.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 28 Feb 2012, 04:53

Jack,
Birth records were kept in the family bible back in those days. They didn't have birth certificates. My grandmother Mary Sibilia ( alphonse wife) had the family bible and I believe when she died she passed it on to jean Sibilia. Her daughter. I don't know if that helps at all.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 28 Feb 2012, 17:32

abt Ed Marinaro... by biography:
Full name, Edward Francis Marinaro; born March 31, 1951 (some sources say 1950), in New York, NY; son of Louis John and Rose Marie (maiden name, Errico) Marinaro.

as he is the grandson of Frank Sibilia?
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 29 Feb 2012, 17:32

Marisibilia,
I have been busy and couldn't get back to you until now. Concerfning a double life for Francesco Sibilia, our family wasn't really looking in that direction until this recent research brought up the possibility. A lot of his family is dead and the younger descendents don't want anything to do with him because he deserted his wife so I also don't get much information.
The Alphonse Sibilia that showed up on immigration papers found by Saunj was from Lioni, Italy which is east of Naples, not Sicily. A reference site on the internet showed almost no Sibilia's in Sicily. The Sibilia's I am researching are not from Sicily.
Concerning the availability of records, although I am new on this website I have researched relatives in a number of parts of Italy for a number of years and I have found that the quality of Italian records is very good. They usually contain a lot of information on the parents, etc. The problem is if they have not been filmed by LDS then of course they are unavailable to a researcher like me living in the USA. In addition, I am not sure of the spelling of his surname or the exact Comune of his birth. I feel most new borns were registered because they were Baptized quickly in the old days and the close ties between the Church and the State in much of Italy years ago brought them into the system.
I don't know how much experience you have in genealogy research but I have a suggestion for you. I bought a book that is very helpful and was recomended to me. It is written for researchers like me that live in the US. It is in English. The name is "Italian Genealogical Records" by Trafford R Cole, Psy.D. He is married to an Italian women and lives in Italy. It tells all about the recoreds available and explains them. You should be able to buy it on the net on Ancestry or Amazon. I recommend it.
Have you used the familysearch.org website? They have the films and the locations to access them.
I'll get back to you.
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby marisibilia » 01 Mar 2012, 07:46

Hi jack,
Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it. I've been trying to research my family for about 13 yrs. But because I have so little information to go on its been very difficult. And from what I understand Sibilia in Italy is like smith in the us. So half the time I don't even know if I'm reading about the right family.
I haven't heard of that book but I will definitely check it out. Thank you for the suggestion. Why my fathers family is so secretive I honestly don't know. But somehow someway im determined to get the information I've been searching and longing for for so many years. All i really want is to find out where I come from and a little family history.
There are so many twists and turns in this process and since I have to weed out the lies from the truths its that much more difficult. You have given me a good idea in I'm going to try to.do a search on baptismal records and see if that leads me any where. Im not sure if it will but its a route I havent tried and thank you for that.

Through my last few conversations with Suanj I've found my self feeling like.I'm being attacked in the sence that I'm " making things up" which is not at all the case. And I'm glad shes been help full too you.but for me she really hasn't been so is like to stay in contact with you jack but Im going to leave the conversation with her. I'm not trying to be rude. It's just im desperately looking for answers not to be in so many words called a.lier. I do realize half of what ive been told by my family about my family is untrue. I'm not nieve. But if your going to find that something is wrong I'd rather you tell me nicely and then help me find the truth. Am I making any sence?

I'm really sorry the subject of my family is extremely sensitive for me. Any way thank you again
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT-Sibilia names

Postby jackdaisy » 06 Mar 2012, 03:21

Saunj and Mari I didn't find my Francesco among the names.
Also for anyone interested in the Sibilia name. The census does not show where in Italy they came from.
I have gone through Ward 15, Newark, NJ 1910 US census by browsing each page. Ward 1 is adjacent to 15 and has immigrants also but I haven't gotten to it yet. I have covered about half of the 400+ pages in ward 15. I have a website available to me other than Ancestry that I can do at home. I am going to finish the rest of the pages as soon as I can find the time. The area of Ward 15 I have all ready covered I think has most of the immigrants. The streets I list with the names such as 8th Ave, 7th Ave, Factory St., are all streets that my people have lived on at some time. The names below have not connected with me so far.
If anyone wants more information on the Sibilia's listed send me a note and I will reply with the census informaton shown on the page.
Names are spelled as best as I could figure out.

Sibilio, Lorenzzo and Giovannia-26 Boyden St
Sibilia, Alphonusina widow-14 Factory St
Sibilia, Alberto and Rosaria-37 Garside St
Sibilia, Angelo and Arcangela-16 Boyden St
Sibilia, Antonio and Concetta-150 7th Ave
Sibilia, George and Julia-Garside St
Sibilia, Giovannio and Maria-29 Garside St
Sibilia, Giuseppe and Angiolina-160 8th Ave
Sibilia, Guglielino and Geovannia-8 Boyden St
Sibilia, Nicolo and Coluccia-14 Factory St
Sibilia, Isadoro and Jennie-128 8th Ave

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 16 Mar 2012, 23:26

Saunj, just a short note to tell you I have established the connection between Frank Sibilia(?) and the man they called Uncle Frank Bagarozza. In 1918 Frank Bagarozza married Maria Giuseppina Colonna who is a sister to Katherine Colonna, Frank Sibilia's wife. The date 1918 is interesting because Katherine Colonna Sibilia is shown on the US 1920 Census alone with the children, no husband. My nephew told me the other day that his father always felt that the wife, Katherine, knew where Frank sibilia was after he left her.
I finished up the page by page look at the 2 wards in Newark's 1910 census and did not find the Frank I wanted. Right now I am looking at the families records in Newark and trying to fill in the names of all the children that have been forgotten. I like a complete picture of the family.
I'll get back to you if anything else interesting develops

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jackdaisy » 16 Mar 2012, 23:45

Mari Sibilia, here are a couple of marriage records for you. they don't appear to relate to me but you can see if they connect with you.
Both are in the "blessing of the rings" register. That means they were married civily and had only a blessing in the church. This was in St Lucy's Newark.
22 June 1905
Giuseppe Sibilia, 35 of Alfonso Sibilia and Filomena Ronca to
Angiolina Bonelli 23 of Carmine Bonelli and mother not shown.
Giuseppe lived at 192 8th Ave, Newark
Angolina lived at 105 7th Ave, Newark
Sibilia is shown as coming from Lionia. Italy

Second listing is the very next one listed.
25 June 1905
James Mills 26 of James A Mills and Anna Boylan to
Maria Sibilia 18 of Antonio Sibilia and Anna Del Maio
James lived at 47 Mt Prospect Ave, Newark. That is not too far from 7th Ave.
Maria Sibilia lived at 152 7th Ave, Newark.
Sibilia is shown as coming from Teora, Italy

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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby suanj » 17 Mar 2012, 07:40

jackdaisy wrote:Saunj, just a short note to tell you I have established the connection between Frank Sibilia(?) and the man they called Uncle Frank Bagarozza. In 1918 Frank Bagarozza married Maria Giuseppina Colonna who is a sister to Katherine Colonna, Frank Sibilia's wife. The date 1918 is interesting because Katherine Colonna Sibilia is shown on the US 1920 Census alone with the children, no husband. My nephew told me the other day that his father always felt that the wife, Katherine, knew where Frank sibilia was after he left her.
I finished up the page by page look at the 2 wards in Newark's 1910 census and did not find the Frank I wanted. Right now I am looking at the families records in Newark and trying to fill in the names of all the children that have been forgotten. I like a complete picture of the family.
I'll get back to you if anything else interesting develops

Jack

Dear Jack,
thanks for let me know this info... so Katherine knew where Frank was after he left her...
the problem is that in 1910 census are no the family...
All the best,
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Re: Castelnuovo di Conza, Salerno, IT

Postby jennabet » 17 Mar 2012, 10:12

I have enjoyed reading the interesting thread about this family. It sounds like an episode from "Mad Men".

There is an equally mysterious Italian ancestor in my own family whom I didn't know anything about until I moved back to Italy and had cousins asking a lot of questions about him. Some day when I have the initiative, I'll post the story here and maybe someone can help me figure it out.
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