best way to research Italian military history?

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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 16 Nov 2010, 17:43

Well, the big problem is to wait a lot of time,
ministery of defense would reply to you,
telling you the amount to send for the entire folder.
usually it dont let pay for just the military record
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby donnawright » 17 Nov 2010, 13:53

Riccardo, I posted this question earlier and Nuccia suggested giving it to you. My grandfather (1883) was born in Sorano and so was his father (1860). I know the names of my grandfather's parents but only the father of the 1860 person. I sent an email to the provincial office in Grosseto and their reply stated that they would send at no cost one military record and that someone would have to search for others in their office in person. I do not know if either of them served in the military.

My question: I do not know what I could learn from obtaining a military record. If I were to request one, would you recommend the 1883 or the 1860 person?

Thanks for your help.

Donna Wright
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 17 Nov 2010, 14:14

On your grandfather (1883) military record or military draft card, there also his parents names, same thing on your great grandfather (1860), his parents names are on it.
If they didnt do it the miltary service, there should be at least their military draft card.
You can request both, giving name, last name, name of father and mother (if you know it) and at least, approx year of birth and place of birth.
The military record has all the informations about personal datas, and military assignments and so forth
The informations about grandfather and greatgrandfather parents alre also written on their real birth record or abstract. I hope it helps
bye Riccardo
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby donnawright » 17 Nov 2010, 14:29

Thanks, I will request both records since I know their place and year of birth. I am interested in knowing if they had a part in Italian military history and what was happening in Italy at the time of their service.

I have been unsuccessful in getting any civil records from the comune of Sorano. They have ignored all requests made to them.

There is a large regional estratti collection of 3200+ microfilm from the Mormon church, and for Sorano there are about 90 films. I ordered the 1860 baptism extract film that gives my great grandfather's information as a one-line extract on a page with others. The mother's name is not on there and neither is the father's age., which prevents me from taking the next logical step back in time. I ordered the 1840 film, allowing his father to be 20 at the time of his birth, but it is just a chance. 90 are too many and too expensive.

Yes, helpful.
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 17 Nov 2010, 14:58

Sorano ignored your requests, because maybe it is written not in italian, because maybe you used the wrong way to send the request, or because you didnt give them all the informations needed to get the birth certificates, or maybe because there was not copy of your ID with your request, or because there was not a self addressed envelope to reply.
Italian civil record offices sometimes needs the person interested to call them to speed up the process, and people working in those offices only speak italian language.
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby donnawright » 17 Nov 2010, 15:25

Here's what I provided: 1. Letter written in Italian by an Italian. I wrote it in English based on the guidelines found on this forum and a young woman in Italy translated it; 2. Envelope addressed to me with Italian postage on it for 2 euros; 3. Correct names and dates of birth; (4) there is a professor of history at the University in Arezzo who has published many books and is well known for his expertise in Toscana history and he has my surname... I asked him to call the office hoping that his celebrity status would help... but it did not. They told him they are too busy dealing with the living to worry about the dead. The only thing on your list that I did not provide is a form of identification. I did, however, identify myself as the granddaughter of the people in my request, and my surname is the same as theirs. What would be an appropriate ID?

Thanks again
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby donnawright » 17 Nov 2010, 15:27

How did you finally find Francesco Paolo Bruno?
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 17 Nov 2010, 15:30

You did everything perfect, I dont know if they didnt reply because of lack
of your ID. They can not dare to say we are too much to deal with living people that we can not deal with death, it is their job and they must certify what you are looking for, it is too easy for some civil record office to act like that, you know, there is the ocean in the middle, they do not risk to say something like that to someone who weekly calls to speed up the process to have a civil record.
How long ago did you write them?
A weekly phone call is needed to move their butt!!!!
ciao Riccardo
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 17 Nov 2010, 15:33

No I didnt find his 1902 ship manifest, I dont know if I will ever find it, there is someone who is helping me USA, he goes directly to the archives, but so far nothing was found, many documents have been destroyed since then, sigh!!
thanks for asking
bye Riccardo

donnawright wrote:How did you finally find Francesco Paolo Bruno?
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby donnawright » 17 Nov 2010, 16:12

I started writing to Sorano about a year ago, followed up with another letter after a couple of months and probably one or two more follow up letters. Then I found the Italian famous professor and thought his influence would get the job done. I was back in touch with the professor about 2 months ago and he said he would call again, with unsuccessful results.

I'm having such wonderful success with my Calabrian comune..... I think I'll give Sorano another try. I am, however, out of Italian postage and I think I have a person I can ask. I sent my last stamp to Calabria last week. Carole/Alba was my provider. They actually asked me to provide not only the envelope but the postage, and it was perfect to get some on hand and very, very successful.

I don't suppose a weekly email to the comune of Sorano would do any good. There is no one I can ask to call weekly. Moving butts would be good!

There is a national archive just a few miles from me and the main library in Fort Worth (Texas) has a nice genealogy section; if there is anything I can help with, let me know. I visited the archive just once and their computers were in use or not working and I have not been back.

I presume you tried stevemorse.org's missing manifest search tool.

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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 17 Nov 2010, 16:19

I dont know if the texas genealogy section has anything about Francesco Paolo Bruno, if you have the chance to check, and you find anything, let me know, maybe I can return the favour
ciao Riccardo
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby blissiorio » 10 Dec 2010, 17:33

ascione_m wrote:I have found the details on my GGF through www.difesa.it but by that I mean using his name, Michelangelo Ascione, I was able to see his birth date, birth place, that he is buried in Italy, died 10 Sep 1917 in the field.


Mark, what part of that site can you go to to search for a name?
Researching surnames:
[In Teramo area] - Core / Fani / Venanzi / Secone / di Luca / Vannoni / Leteo / Bianchini / Cistola / Felicione / di Marco / Casalena / Romantini / Cintioli / di Francesco / Caponi / Foschi / Traini / d'Ascenzo / Ciare / Ciavattini

[In Campagna and Eboli] - Iorio / Adelizzi
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Re: best way to research Italian military history?

Postby ricbru » 10 Dec 2010, 18:29

Here it is, bye Riccardo

http://www.difesa.it/Ministro/Commissar ... Caduti.htm

blissiorio wrote:
ascione_m wrote:I have found the details on my GGF through www.difesa.it but by that I mean using his name, Michelangelo Ascione, I was able to see his birth date, birth place, that he is buried in Italy, died 10 Sep 1917 in the field.


Mark, what part of that site can you go to to search for a name?
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