Hi Nuccia and Suanj That was quick work Nuccia and Suanj,Many many thanks for that detailed explanation xx xx These names were not from the same birth act. The first one, image 469, was from the birth act of 1853 and the 2nd image was from the birth act of 1860. So it seems that both sons were given the same name??
Yes, so, perfectly!
I've never heard of that happening before, especially when the first son with that name was still alive when the 2nd one was given the same name??
Yes, normally when the first child died, the second can have the same first name... I don't know if this children was brothers, because, some time, especially in the past time and for common names that was 2 marriages, so 2 family, and the spouse all with equal name ( cousins).. for exemple in Milan:
-1.Mario Rossi son of Giuseppe, spouse Gabriella Bianchi daughter of Francesco
-2. Mario Rossi son of Antonio spouse Gabriella Bianchi daughter of Michele
they can to have a male child, the first in 1853 and they call it Guiovan battista Rossi, so for the second child born in 1860 from other spouses...
and because sometime this casualty was, in Italy always are the right birthdates, the ages, for the relatives of child, and also the name of gfathers almost... so you can to say if the relatives of your 2 Giovambattista are perfectly the same?
Here is part of the translation of the one Birth Act for Francesca. The images are hard to read, but I tried my best. If I can see the actual document, I could translate them with no problems.
Number of Order 18
In the year one thousand eight hundred sixty-one, on day eighteen, of the month of February, at the hour sixteen before us Luigi Vion??, Mayor, and the Official of Vital Records of SantÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Elia, the Province of ????, appeared Fortunata Camiolillo, daughter of (the late) Nic???, of age fifty-six, of profession midwife, resides in SantÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Elia.
who has introduced a baby (girl) that we have visibly witnessed, and she has declared, that the same was born of Pasqua Bastianiello, of age twenty-seven, resident of SantÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Elia, and of Unknown Father, of age -----------, of profession --------, residing ---------, on the day seventeen, of the same month, at the hour twenty-four, in the house of her own home.
The same has also declared to give to the baby the name of
The rest of the document should go on to readÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦. The aforesaid presentation and declaration was made in the presence of (witnesses)Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Ã¢â‚¬Â¦.
If I could see the actual documents, I could translate them. Also, the on the right hand-side of the documents should be the Baptismal Information.
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sorry I couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t tell you more, but these are very poor images.
Glad to see you back...unfortunately though the rain moved up this way! What a mess!
I thought I had to build an ark down here in Philly. I feel sorry for the neighboring areas such as DE, DC, NJ, and other parts of PA. They are totally flooded and they are waiting for the rivers to crest which is going to make it worse for them.
Any way, I'm trying to get back into the things of swings. My mother wasn't well and I had to do my Daughter Duties.
I hope you and your family are well and thank you for the welcome back!!!
I think what I'm going to do is try to find if there are separate birth acts for Guiseppa Fionda and Maria Guiseppa Fionda. I understand what you said that the Giovanni's maybe cousins instead of brothers. I'm waiting for other films I've ordered to arrive at the FHC and I should be able to check that out then.
Suanj many many thanks again
That was so kind of you to do that for me. You have solved another of my problems, I was puzzled as to who the age 56 belonged to - now I know -the midwife! (I'm beginning to recognise the italian numbers now ) The images of the birth acts are not good At the FHC I've tried taking the pictures with the films on different machines but it doesn't seem to make much difference. I did take a magnifying glass with me the last time and I was able to make out some more words. When I traced the birth act using overhead projector film I could make out a few more words but some of the images of the birth acts were not very good on the film. Yes the baptismal record was on the right hand side of the birth act and at the bottom were dates relating to the marriage, but again its not clear and very difficult to make out the writing. I'm just waiting for other films arriving to check out the marriage documents, the film that came had the wrong years, my fault!
Many thanks again for taking time to do that for me its very much appreciated.
ps We've had lovely sunshine here for the past few days, too hot for me though.
I'll take the cold any day!!! A statement my grandmother would make is that you can always add a layer of clothes to keep warm, but when it's too hot, the more layers of clothes you take off, you end up in your birthday suit and you still can't cool off.lol Gotta love Nanna's.
Here is what the rest of the 1861 Birth Act should state, just fill in the blanks.
The aforesaid presentation and declaration was made in the presence of (name of witness), of the age of -------, of profession -------, citizen residing in (town's name), and of (name of witness), of the age of -----, of profession -------, citizen residing in (town's name).
Witnesses taking part of the present act and of himself, Signora (Informant's name), produced.
The present act was written and read to the informant and signed by ......
On the side of the Baptism should state the following....
The Parish Priest of the ---------- has returned to us on day (date), of (month), of the same year, notice that we have written on day (date), of (month). He has indicated that the Sacrament of Baptism was administered to Francesca
on day (date), of the same month and year and has undersigned the present act.
Each year is a little different as well as each Province makes them a little different. I have one town of my own ancestors where the Mayor wrote almost a book for each person. It was sooooooooo detailed that I loved it!!!
It all depends on the town and what information that wanted to write.
Many thanks again Trish. I'll print that out and take it with me tomorrow. I can only go to the FHC on a Tuesday and a Thursday and I'm there from about 11 am until 3pm I'm sure I'm going to have square eyes in a wee while but I get so carried away the time just flies past. I think I agree with your Nonna. Unfortunately for me If I did get down to my 'birthday suit' there still would be a layer of fat to still keep me warm
Like I was saying to Nuccia, if only I could put myself into the computer and re-size myself -smaller- because I certainly dont need enlarging!
Thanks again Trish
Sorry for springing that one on you Nuccia really should have waited for you to reply before I posted- but I guess it's that part of the 'CRAW' that's in me - being desparate to find out news- but thanks for taking time to do that for me. p.s. the wee green 'msn' man is still ignoring me and wont let me talk. xx Emmy
Suanj, On the marriage notation , I have an enlarged version, and the names of the people seem to be Fortunata Soave and Tommaso di Filipis it was the part at the end I didnt understand because there was a different date there, I didnt understand the writing before that date, and its too small to make it out on the image posted here maybe Nuccia could enlarge that one. Many Thanks again Suanj God Bless, Emmy xx
That was a great piece of news, now I know that my G.G.Grandfather was alive in 1885, now I know not to go further back when looking up the 'death'micro films.
Many Thanks for helping
As for msn, we need to chat and figure something out. I'm going to take a nap since I just got in from work. Look for me online later and we'll see if we can't figure something out. Maybe Maria and suanj can join us and we can have a "conference" chat!
A ( short of addÃƒÂ¬ ancient word, mean= day) ... June( seem June/Giugno) the aforesaid date wrote in S. Elia ...(illegible) Fortunata(female) Soave with Tommaso De Filippis, Casenda?.... (I'm not sure about this word) .. Casenda ?(or Caserta? or Cosenza?) 22 march(marzo..) 1882