'storico' letter

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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby warriorrabbit » 27 Oct 2008, 04:40

This is great, Luca! It really helps.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions. Right off the bat, I see something funny -- on Antonino's and Concetta's birth records, Nunzia remains the same age and Giuseppe gets two years younger in three years' time! What a feat. ;)

What is Nunzia's occupation on those records? It's not donna di casa, it's something that starts with a c. What's the church they're baptized at?

On the second page of Antonino's record, what happened in Patti on 19 Ottobre 1886? (It's at the bottom of the left column.) Is his wife Maria Privitera the daughter of Stefano?

It still seems odd that Giuseppe is fu Salvatore and Nunzia is fu Ignazio, but they named a son Ignazio (twice!) but not a single son (and they had plenty of opportunities!) was named Salvatore.

It looks like Concetta Alosi's mother was Marianna Torre, but I have no idea what's going on underneath the witnesses' signatures. Are they saying they're moving in November? I also don't know what the annotation says.
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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby warriorrabbit » 27 Oct 2008, 05:23

Nicolo's birth record looks like it has a lot of information, but I can't make everything out. Giuseppe is fu Salvatore and fu Concetta... Baudo? Bando?

Giuseppe is 29, a shoemaker... and then I see a Nicolo, Costantino, and Angelo... then a bunch of other stuff...then Nunzia is fu Ignazio and fu Giovanna Virgilio? and she's a filatrice and then a bunch of other stuff and signatures. Are Nicolo, Angelo, and Costantino the witnesses? I'm not used to witnesses being at the top, but it doesn't look like there are any at the bottom.

Looks like this gives me three more names -- Torre, Virgilio, and Baudo/Bando! This is such a big find, Luca! Thank you!
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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2008, 10:09

warriorrabbit wrote:I'm sure I'll have lots of questions. Right off the bat, I see something funny -- on Antonino's and Concetta's birth records, Nunzia remains the same age and Giuseppe gets two years younger in three years' time! What a feat. ;)
It's not so odd: it did happen frequently due to the fact that the age was based on the declaration of the father (and not on documents) or supposed by the registrar.

What is Nunzia's occupation on those records? It's not donna di casa, it's something that starts with a c. What's the church they're baptized at?
The occupation isn't mentioned; maybe you refer to "domiciliata" that means "where she lives" and the answer is "con esso lui" - with her husband

On the second page of Antonino's record, what happened in Patti on 19 Ottobre 1886? (It's at the bottom of the left column.) Is his wife Maria Privitera the daughter of Stefano?
"In esecuzione della sentenza del Tribunale di Patti del 19 Ottobre 1886 si ci dà noi firmata" It refers to a sentence of the court, but it's not specified the content.

It still seems odd that Giuseppe is fu Salvatore and Nunzia is fu Ignazio, but they named a son Ignazio (twice!) but not a single son (and they had plenty of opportunities!) was named Salvatore.
:?

It looks like Concetta Alosi's mother was Marianna Torre, but I have no idea what's going on underneath the witnesses' signatures. Are they saying they're moving in November? I also don't know what the annotation says.
The last 12 lines: "il documento presentato è il certificato delle pubblicazioni da me eseguite, la prima il 1° Novembre e la seconda l'8 Novembre corrente anno, nonché il certificato di eseguite pubblicazioni rilasciato dall'Ufficiale di Stato Civile di Mazzarrà Sant'Andrea in data 20 Novembre corrente anno.
A quest'atto sono intervenuti i genitori dello sposo e quelli della sposa i quali tutti prestano il dovuto consenso al richiesto matrimonio.
Letto il presente atto a tutti gli intervenuti si sono con me sottoscritti [firmati] meno delle genitrici [madri] degli sposi i [le] quali hanno dichiarato essere analfabeti [analfabete]



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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby Lucap » 27 Oct 2008, 19:08

warriorrabbit wrote:Nicolo's birth record looks like it has a lot of information, but I can't make everything out. Giuseppe is fu Salvatore and fu Concetta... Baudo? Bando?
Nr. 24. L'anno 1866, il 15 del mese di Febbraio alle ore 20 davanti me Segretario Comunale di Gioiosa Marea quale Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune medesimo, delegato da questo Sindaco [...] è comparso Giuseppe Ferlazzo del fu Salvatore e della fu Concetta Baulo di anni 29 di professione calzolaio e residente alla contrada S. Nicolò vecchio, il quale alla presenza di Costantino xxx del fu Angelo di anni 36 di professione traficante domiciliato ugualmente in Gioiosa Marea e di Giuseppe Lisciandio del fu xxx di anni 66 di professione bracciale domiciliato xxx come sopra, da me funzionario pienamente conosciuti, mi fu presentato un fanciullo di sesso maschile nato il giorno 14 del mese di sopra anno corrente alle ore 22 nela casa di abitazione del dichiarante come sopra, che dichiara [essere] suo figlio e di Nunzia Costa figlia del fu Ignazio e della fu Giovanna Virgilio di anni 28 filatrice, ed al quale impone il nome di Nicolò.
Questa dichiarazione e presentazione è stata fatta alla presenza dei detti testimoni i quali dicono non sapere scrivere ecc..


Giuseppe is 29, a shoemaker... and then I see a Nicolo, Costantino, and Angelo... then a bunch of other stuff...then Nunzia is fu Ignazio and fu Giovanna Virgilio? and she's a filatrice and then a bunch of other stuff and signatures. Are Nicolo, Angelo, and Costantino the witnesses? I'm not used to witnesses being at the top, but it doesn't look like there are any at the bottom.
The witnesses are Costantino and Giuseppe.

Looks like this gives me three more names -- Torre, Virgilio, and Baudo/Bando! This is such a big find, Luca! Thank you!
The next step, i think, is to contact the priest of Gioiosa Marea and ask if there are the church records for that period.



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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby warriorrabbit » 28 Oct 2008, 00:21

Actually I meant 'di professione' -- that's profession, i.e. occupation, isn't it? Normally I see civile or donna di casa, or something like filatrice. I don't recognize what's there.

Antonino's wife Maria -- is her father's name Stefano? I assume so, but it's slightly cut off. (I would assume they mean the actual city of Catania and not the whole province, which would make things difficult if I were to try and chase that down.)

Fantastic information. For such a long time I was unable to go any higher than Celestino and Concetta (and was getting very frustrated), and then the floodgates opened with multiple names to follow.

Now I can find out if Concetta had other siblings, etc. (I know she had a brother named Filippo, who had three children).

Woo hoo! Thank you, Luca.
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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby Lucap » 28 Oct 2008, 10:02

warriorrabbit wrote:Actually I meant 'di professione' -- that's profession, i.e. occupation, isn't it? Normally I see civile or donna di casa, or something like filatrice. I don't recognize what's there.
You are right, i didn't saw it. It says: di professione: come sopra, that's as above-mentioned, but it refers to Giuseppe and not to Nunzia: the prescribed form gave the possibility to another person than the father to make the birth's declaration; in that case the father's age, his profession and domicile were described after the mother's datas (in fact you can see domiciliata for Nunzia Costa and than domiciliato four lines below)

Antonino's wife Maria -- is her father's name Stefano? I assume so, but it's slightly cut off. (I would assume they mean the actual city of Catania and not the whole province, which would make things difficult if I were to try and chase that down.)
Maria Privitera daughter of Stefano. I think the city of Catania (not the province), but if your gggrandfather was Celestino i think you must focus on his family and not on Antonino's wife :wink:

Fantastic information. For such a long time I was unable to go any higher than Celestino and Concetta (and was getting very frustrated), and then the floodgates opened with multiple names to follow.

Now I can find out if Concetta had other siblings, etc. (I know she had a brother named Filippo, who had three children).
:wink:

Woo hoo! Thank you, Luca.


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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby warriorrabbit » 29 Oct 2008, 15:48

Well, eventually I would want to look for Antonino's marriage record and children. I figure he moved to Catania, like Ignazio and Celestino moved to Mazzarra. Or not, who knows. Not a front burner item, but something to pursue at some point. First I want to find Nicolo, as he came here.

The annotation for Celestino and Concetta's marriage -- what happened on January 1, 1897?

Thank you again, Luca. This is all very helpful.
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Re: 'storico' letter

Postby Lucap » 29 Oct 2008, 17:46

warriorrabbit wrote:The annotation for Celestino and Concetta's marriage -- what happened on January 1, 1897?

Oh sorry: i didn't read it and i thought it was related to Celestino and Concetta :lol:
It's a note of the registrar that says that the act nr. 31 is the closing one for the year 1896.

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