Was GGF eligible for nat in U.S. or Argentina?

[RussoTiesi]

I'm in the beginning stages of attempting to gain jure sanguinis citizenship through my father's side: GGF>GF>F>me.

My GGF, Leonardo Russo Tiesi, came from Chiusa Sclafani, Sicily, to the U.S. on February 6, 1908. He married my GGM in 1909 in Chicago, and she gave birth there to my grandfather, Frank Russo Tiesi, on July 4, 1910. At some point thereafter, they moved to Rosario, Argentina, but all came back to the U.S. on February 23, 1914. Leonardo Russo Tiesi was shot to death in Chicago on July 1, 1917.

A brief summary of my GGF's various residencies is as follows:
1908-1910: U.S. (at least 2 years, 5 months)
1910-1914: Argentina (at most 3 years, 7 months)
1914-1917: U.S. (3 years, 5 months)

My questions are these:
1) Would my GGF have been eligible to complete the U.S. naturalization process? Did the 5-year residency requirement count only consecutive years of residency, or did it allow someone to add up the time they spent in the U.S., with intervening time abroad?

2) After 1910, when my GF was born, was my GGF's naturalization status irrelevant? (From what I've read so far on this board, my GGF may have been able to file his first papers by the time my GF was born, but not completed the naturalization process, meaning my GF was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth. Correct?)

3) Is anybody familiar with Argentina's naturalization requirements ca. 1910-1914? Or could anybody suggest some resources I might consult? (My wife is fluent in Spanish).

I plan on doing the customary searches for naturalization records required in the jure sanguinis process, but I thought having some answers to the above questions might help me prioritize my efforts. I would appreciate any advice and assistance that is offered.

Thank you,

Jim

[johnnyonthespot]

1) I don't think so. I believe 5 years of continuous residency was required, perhaps with short "vacation" breaks permitted.

2) Irrelevant? In a sense, yes. Normally, you would have to prove that your Italian ancestor never naturalized, or did so after the birth of the next person in the line. In this case, you might think you could convince the consulate that your GGF could not possibly have naturalized, because he wasn't in the country long enough to have been eligible. However, the problem then becomes one of proving exactly when he first entered the US. I would say that it is worth a shot, but most likely in the end you will be forced to go the proof of no records route. This involves obtaining certification of "No Records Found" from the USCIS, NARA (National Archives), and the state and county courts for each place your GGF resided while in the US.

3) Which brings us to the Argentina question... I have no idea what Argentina's naturalization procedures may have been or how to research this question. One might consider not even bringing the subject up, ignoring it as if it never happened. Would this work? Possibly. Ethical? Not really, I guess.

However, if you take Argentina out of the equation, then you are back to GGF having been in the US a total of nine years - more than enough time for him to have naturalized, and thus back to the need to prove that he in fact did not do so.

[mler]

I agree with Carmine. I would ignore his "long vacation" in Argentina and go the "no record" route. That would avoid unnecessary complications.

Since your gf was born in Chicago, it would be easy to keep Argentina out of the equation. I, too, am unfamiliar with naturalization law in Argentina, but I think you can safely assume that your ggf did not naturalize there. He was there only a very short time, and his fairly quick return to the US indicates that he did not intend to make a long-term commitment to Argentina.

Was your ggf's family listed on the 1919 census?

[johnnyonthespot]

As an aside, Frank's brother Salvador - born an Argentine citizen - later became a naturalized US citizen:



Click to enlarge; click again for maximum magnification.

If interested, you should be able to obtain copies of his naturalization documents from the National Archives for about $8.00.

[mler]

Too late to edit. I meant to write 1910 census.

[johnnyonthespot]

Wow! Having an incredibly difficult time trying to locate any census (1910, 1920, 1930) for this family!

The best I have come up with is this one which is tantalizingly close but has numerous inaccuracies, notably the birthplaces of the children. Of course, censuses are often riddled with errors...


1920 United States Federal Census about Annie Russio
Name: Annie Russio
[Annie?? Russio]
Home in 1920: Chicago Ward 22, Cook (Chicago), Illinois
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Widowed
Race: White
Sex: Female
Home owned: Rent
Year of immigration: 1892
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Russio 29
Frank Russio 10
Sam Russio 8 [9]
Josephine Russio 2 [2 3/12] (means 2 years and 3 months)

[RussoTiesi]

First, thank you for sharing your expertise and time with me. This has got to be one of the best forums around!

johnyonthespot, you nailed the 1920 census and Salvador Russo Tiesi's naturalization index record. The 1910 census has proved to be much more elusive for me, even though the July 1910 birth certificate for my grandfather has the same 1157 Milton Ave address as the 1920 Census.

One of the complicating factors in all this is the double name of Russo Tiesi--it appears only on my GGF's marriage certificate and on the passenger manifests. On the other documents that are definitely my family, the last name is given as Russo (I know this is an additional problem I'll have to tackle, but I didn't want to make my initial post overly complicated). As a somewhat ironic footnote to all this, my grandfather, Frank Russo, applied for a delayed record of birth in 1968; as supporting evidence, he referenced his legal name change from Russo Tiesi to Russo in 1950. However, thanks to familysearch.org, I discovered that a birth certificate had been filed for him in 1910, and it lists his last name as Russo! Apparently, his legal name was Russo all along.

This is a tangled web, and I really am thankful for the guidance that has been given as to which strands I should tug. I'll request Sal Russo Tiesi's naturalization info from the National Archives and begin the process of seeking the other relevant records from the various government entities you mention.

Sincerely,

Jim

[johnnyonthespot]

I don't know if you noticed, but on the February 24, 1914 manifest, immediately below Salvador Russo Tiese (Frank's 1 year-old brother) is Salvador (Salvatore) Russo, aged 18. He is coming from and going to the same place as the Russo-Tiese family. I believe he is actually Leonardo's brother.

[johnnyonthespot]

Unless I am misreading, these are the 1910 census pages for 1159 to 1145 Milton Avenue. I don't see Leonardo & Anna here in April, 1910.

[RussoTiesi]

You are right about Leonardo's brother as well. Unfortunately, he too was shot to death not long after returning to the states from Argentina. Contemporary news articles regarding both killings strongly suggest either participation in or victimization by the Black Hand. A photograph of one of the men killed with my GGF appears on the cover of Robert M. Lombardo's excellent book, The Black Hand: Terror by Letter in Chicago.

My search for information on family history has been both aided by the notoriety of the murders and hampered by my own ancestors' reluctance to tell me anything about my GGF. (And if I ever do make it to the consulate interview process, I surely hope they won't hold my history against me!)

[RussoTiesi]

The 1910 census for 1157 Milton does include a number of Terranella family members (my GGF's wife Anna was a Terranella), but as johnyonthespot notes, no Russos or Russo Tiesis. I've browsed through the ward and surrounding ones and haven't had any luck. The Russo Tiesi family's subsequent departure for Argentina has led me to speculate that they did not wish to be located by any government authorities (notwithstanding my grandfather's birth certificate, which was filed by the midwife). Of course, it's also possible they lived somewhere else or they were missed (at the date of census, it would have only been Leonardo and Anna).

[RussoTiesi]

After a crash course via the Internet on Argentinian citizenship laws ca. 1910, I found an answer to the original question I posed in this thread and would like to share it with others who might face a similar situation.

Argentine Law No. 346 of 1869 allowed resident aliens over the age of 18 to apply for citizenship after residing in the country for 2 years. The foreign-born minor son of a father who became a naturalized citizen could become a citizen only after enlisting in the Argentine armed forces. (For the full text of the law, see http://books.google.com/books?id=0VWXmx ... 46&f=false)

In my particular case, my grandfather lived in Argentina between the ages of a few months to 3 years old, and hardly would have been able to enlist in the military. Hence, even if my GGF became an Argentine citizen, which I doubt, my GF could not have become a citizen there.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with this information--obtain an affidavit from an Argentine immigration lawyer backing up my assertion? Seek a certificate of no record from whatever archives holds the naturalization records there? I'd appreciate whatever suggestions can be offered.

[johnnyonthespot]

Honestly, I think I would prefer to leave the Argentine "vacation" out of the equation altogether; it is too much of a Pandora's box, best left unopened.