Questions about Naturalization

[eoddom]

So apparently I've been living under a rock because I've never heard about jure sanguinis until the last week. So after doing much research I'm trying to find out if my great grandfather, who came to the US in 1909 from foglianise was ever naturalized. Looking at census records he claimed to be naturalized but with conflicting information about when and also the dates of his arrival to the US are different. I submitted a request for an index search with the USCIS today so hopefully in the next few weeks I'll get something back (crossing my fingers for no records found). What's the chance that living in a pretty small and rural town in NY that even if he had filed intent and became naturalized that it would have made it's way to USCIS? From what I've read for some consulates that a simple "no records found" from the USCIS is enough to satisfy the requirements for proving he did not renounce his italian citizenship.

If you're wondering why I'm interested in dual citizenship, I've always dreamt of living and working abroad but being from the states it's damn near impossible to move to the EU without a 4 year degree. This would obviously make things alot easier. Me and my father are planning a trip to Foglianise soon either way to meet some of our Italian relatives and to learn more about where our ancestors came from.

[mler]

Actually, if you want to hope for something, it's better if you find out that he DID naturalize but did so after his American-born son was born. That would continue the Italian line.

A no-record application is scrutinized much more intensely by the consulates. They will want no-record statements not only from USCIS, but also from possible local naturalizing authorities. In addition, most consulates are now asking for census records as supporting information. That your great-grandfather's census statements claim naturalization, presents a major obstacle. In short, the no-record application is more difficult.

[eoddom]

I'm waiting to find out about how it would work with my great grandmother. If my great grandfather married her before he was naturalized, that makes her an italian citizen, no?

Edit: Actually my great grandmother is Italian but she was born in the United States. I'm going to see if her parents where ever naturalized. Probably a huge stretch and I don't even know if it's possible to go that many generations back. Plus it would involve hiring Luigi to file a 1948 case.

[mler]

You're right, of course; it would be a 1948 case.

There is no generational limit to jure sanguinis, but more generations add to the complexity.

Dates are important here. When were your great-grandparents married? If before 1922 and the Cable Act, a woman's citizenship was determined by her husband's citizenship from the U.S. perspective at least.

[eoddom]

Looking at just the information from the 1930 census, they were married in 1920 (she was only 17 at the time of their marriage). So in the eyes of the italian government, if she was an italian citizen before the marriage and he was naturalized already, she lost her italian citizenship? Or is that only how the US views it? Sorry for all the questions just trying to get all my facts straight. I'm trying to hunt down the first names of her parents (already got their last name, fabrizio) so I can find out if there is any info on their naturalization.

[mler]

If she was born in the U.S., she couldn't lose citizenship to naturalization. She would have already been a U.S. citizen. If he had not yet naturalized, she would have lost her U.S. citizenship when she married.

Once you have your dates in line and more specific information on the naturalization records, post questions on the citizenship forum at http://www.italiancitizenship.freeforums.org

Both BBCWatcher and Malcolm, who post regularly, are very familiar with the many changes in Italian citizenship law. They will have answers to just about all of your questions.

[eoddom]

Alright thanks for your help. Me and my father are working on finding as much information as possible about my great grandmothers family and then I'll post on that other forum with my findings. I have this problem that once i start on something I tend to become a bit obsessive until I'm finished...haha.

[mler]

As you should be. I was a bit obsessed too while I was going through the process.

Best of luck.

[eoddom]

So I ended up finding out my GGF naturalized in 1919 a year after he was honorably discharged from the military (fought in WWI) so that ruled out using him. But I managed to find a line I can use that will involve retaining the services of luigi paiano. I'm going to use my GGGM->GGM->GF->F->Me

GGGM moved to the US when she was 15 and would have never naturalized, he said that a no records letter from USCIS and NARA would be fine as proof. My GGM was born in the US in 1903 so no worries there as my GGGF naturalized way before he married his wife or had my GGM.