MARRIAGE: NO 20 GIUSEPPE CASELLA E ROSA GIANNONE

[AngelaGrace56]

What is the word starting with “G” after it says “Giuseppe Casella, di anni ventidue, nato in Saponara, di venti maggio, mille otto cento, come dalla fede del G….....?
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Angela

[erudita74]

I see the word Parroco

look at page 33 of this link, bottom note #23

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y3kZA ... ra&f=false

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you, Erudita. Yes, I believe you are correct. So, the "faith of the Parish Priest?" I've never seen this before. Why would they put this? Do you know what it means exactly? I need to let it sink in a bit.

I have a question re mid to late 1700 parish records. When I come across "death extracts", etc, amongst allegati, that are dated mid to late 1700's, they are always in Italian. Does this mean that:
1. the extracted record has been translated from Latin to Italian, or
2. the record has just been extracted from the original record that was written in (I hope) Italian.

Thanks for any help.
Angela

[erudita74]

Angela
I have to make this quick, as I need to get off of my computer now. Just to answer your first question concerning "faith of the parish priest." If you see, there is the date of birth given for both the groom and the bride but his date of birth is followed by the phrase, yet hers isn't. Yet it says in the list of the documents that his birth act, as well as hers, was provided. I am thinking that perhaps the parish priest was the one who provided the evidence concerning his date of birth, and that he didn't have an actual birth act to provide. Anyway, I have never seen this in a record before, but I can't think of any other possible explanation.

Will try to get back to you tomorrow about the rest.

Erudita

[AngelaGrace56]

I appreciate your thoughts on this, Erudita, and it certainly makes sense. Thank you.

I'm not sure I can go by trusting the priest's word on this though. I've come across at least three extracts, amongst allegati, provided by the parish, and I have been unable to locate the civil record. I also have two death extracts, from a different set of allegati, for the same person who has the same husband, but the date of her death are eight years apart? The other issue I have is that I have allegati which is suppose to include the grandfather's death record, but all that has been supplied is a certificate saying that the priest was unable to find the death record in his books. Oh well, I shall box on with my little mysteries.

Incidentally, do you know whether priests went into the ministry as a result of a "calling" (from God) or was it merely a "profession". I have a few priests in my history.

Thank you, again.
Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I appreciate your thoughts on this, Erudita, and it certainly makes sense. Thank you.

I'm not sure I can go by trusting the priest's word on this though. I've come across at least three extracts, amongst allegati, provided by the parish, and I have been unable to locate the civil record. I also have two death extracts, from a different set of allegati, for the same person who has the same husband, but the date of her death are eight years apart? The other issue I have is that I have allegati which is suppose to include the grandfather's death record, but all that has been supplied is a certificate saying that the priest was unable to find the death record in his books.

Incidentally, do you know whether priests went into the ministry as a result of a "calling" (from God) or was it merely a "profession". I have a few priests in my history.

Thank you, again.
Angela

[erudita74]

Angela
In response to your original question concerning the allegati-I don't know the answer for certain and can't find anything definitive. I looked through some of the allegati records I have for my ancestry and my husband's. They were mostly written in the early 1800s but have info contained in them from the 1700s. In one case, the priest introduced the record in Italian and, at the end of the record, wrote in Italian that it conformed to the original and was to be used for a marriage. But then the actual record itself -in the middle of the text-was completely in Latin. Yet, I have others from the early 1800s concerning events from the 1700s which were completely written in Italian. The problem with those is that I don't have access to the actual church records from those towns. In one town, the original church was completely destroyed in the late 1700s and all of its records, which were housed there, are gone.Copies were never sent to the diocese. In most parts of Italy, Latin was the language used, but there were exceptions in some sections of Italy where church records were written in German or French. So the extracted records you are seeing written in Italian may have been translated by the priest into Italian from the original Latin, but I really don't know for sure.

As to the priest question-I have to do some research. I know a lot were from wealthy families (many property owners had sons who were in the priesthood), so I don't know if they actually had "the calling" or not.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Angela
I just came across the following link which may have some info for you about the priests.
Erudita

https://books.google.com/books?id=eTUoB ... ly&f=false

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you, Erudita, for the reference to the book. I'll have a read through.

I'd actually started typing up some more questions before seeing your reference to the book here. I'll post them anyway, because they may not be covered in the book, and you'll probably know the answers.

I have some more questions re priests/churches, if you are able to help, please Erudita:

1. Some of my baptism records say: Il Parroco dell Insigne Collegiata. What does this mean?

2. Looking at the following Marriage Record No 29: De Santis Francesco Paolo/Pricolo Antonia: Vincenzo De Milita, Sacerdote has signed his name with an abbreviation after it which looks like “Man'”. I was wondering if it was an abbreviation for the “Order” he was in? Do you know what it stands for. (Vincenzo is in my history.)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=2043547

3. Actually one more pertaining to the above record, I've noticed that Francesco Paolo Caputi, the Archpriest? has an abbreviation after his name “Can/lo”. I know I should know what this means but I can't retrieve it from memory at the moment. Can you help?

4. I've noticed that the priests in my history, lived/died in the town that they were born. Was this normal, that a priest would be assigned to his birth town?

Thank you again.

Angela

[erudita74]

the notation on the bottom of page 103 of the following link might help you with the answer to question #1. I honestly have never seen this before and don't know what it means.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Np8Nq ... 22&f=false

Also, offhand I don't know the answers to the other questions. You have me out of my comfort zone, Angela

Erudita

BTW, I'm wondering if the abbreviation you are referring to in your question number 3 is for the word canonico or its synonym calonico

[AngelaGrace56]

the notation on the bottom of page 103 of the following link might help you with the answer to question #1. I honestly have never seen this before and don't know what it means.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Np8Nq ... 22&f=false

Also, offhand I don't know the answers to the other questions. You have me out of my comfort zone, Angela

Erudita

BTW, I'm wondering if the abbreviation you are referring to in your question number 3 is for the word canonico or its synonym calonico

Thank you so much for the book reference, Erudita. It will take me a little while to "unpack" what it is saying. You are so good at finding the right references - it is very specific to Saponara di Grumento.

Re question 3, yes, canonico sounds right to me.

Re having you "out of your confort zone", that would be an absolute first time. Thank you for all your help over the years. I always enjoy and learn a lot from reading your posts.

Angela

[erudita74]

Angela,
As you already know, I do do a lot of reading on all kinds of topics related to these records but, as you can see, I still have much more to explore, Your questions continue to pose a challenge and a great learning tool for me too!
Erudita

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you, Erudita. (I think that I've got "Insigne Collegiate" sorted now. I'll try and write it up in my own words and post it here. I do know that the church in Saponara Grumento referred to as "Insigne Collegiate" was one and the same S.Antonio/S.Antonino Martire, the church that my ancestors were baptised, confirmed, married etc in. My father also was baptised in that church.)
Angela

[erudita74]

You're welcome again, Angela. I'm glad you've been able to make some sense out of the reference.
Erudita