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drovedo · Post by **drovedo** » 17 Sep 2007, 18:52

I spoke with Consulate Officer
He wants:
US Census report
Certificate of Italian Citizenship for Grandfather

The consulate officer wants proof of US citizenship. "He must have lost it, and reacquired it." I explained that I have USCIS letters saying no. I told him that I thought that my grandfather probably just went to the state of his birth and got his baptismal Record and no one questioned him. (HE WAS BORN IN US). He said, well that is a problem.

I must prove that my grandfather as a "alien" lost us citizenship and reaquired it. Disqualification, I think.

I must present 2 census reports (1930 and 1940) to see if my grandfather "acquired" us citizenship or was "granted" it.
I asked if this was limited to Naturalization.
He did not answer.

Sounds like this goes beyond Naturalization. I already have USCIS docs for him--no record and nonexistence of one.

He said not having a record is a problem.

Gildone · Post by **Gildone** » 03 Nov 2007, 22:04

Well, getting census reports is easy. If your local library system subcribes to Ancestry.com, you can find and print out the required census docs. There is a column for US citizenship.

AnotherCitizenToBe · Post by **AnotherCitizenToBe** » 03 Nov 2007, 22:38

Gildone wrote:Well, getting census reports is easy. If your local library system subcribes to Ancestry.com, you can find and print out the required census docs. There is a column for US citizenship.

The 1940 US Census data have not been released for public viewing and will not be until 2012. I don't recall if there is a legal way to obtain a copy of a specific page from that period...

AnotherCitizenToBe · Post by **AnotherCitizenToBe** » 03 Nov 2007, 22:48

drovedo wrote:I spoke with Consulate Officer
He wants:
US Census report
Certificate of Italian Citizenship for Grandfather

The consulate officer wants proof of US citizenship. "He must have lost it, and reacquired it." I explained that I have USCIS letters saying no. I told him that I thought that my grandfather probably just went to the state of his birth and got his baptismal Record and no one questioned him. (HE WAS BORN IN US). He said, well that is a problem.

I must prove that my grandfather as a "alien" lost us citizenship and reaquired it. Disqualification, I think.

I must present 2 census reports (1930 and 1940) to see if my grandfather "acquired" us citizenship or was "granted" it.
I asked if this was limited to Naturalization.
He did not answer.

Sounds like this goes beyond Naturalization. I already have USCIS docs for him--no record and nonexistence of one.

He said not having a record is a problem.

This "Certificate of Italian Citizenship" thing has been mentioned a few times recently in connection with the Chicago and Miami consulates. Are you applying at one of those, or are other consulates asking for it now as well? Frankly, now that I better understand some of the issues involved, I am surprised it is not a requirement for *all* jure sangiunis applicants in *all* consulates.

I am confused and I apologize if you have made previous posts which would help me understand - what exactly is the issue with your US-born grandfather? If he was born in the US, he was born a US citizen.

Please explain why we are having this discussion.

Who was your actual beyond-a-doubt Italian ancestor? Your great-grandfather?

Where and when was your grandfather born? Why is *his* citizenship an issue?

peggymckee · Post by **peggymckee** » 03 Nov 2007, 23:16

Try this link. Download the form referred to--it explains how to get the census pages you need--including the 1940 census, assuming your GF is deceased. And if not, you must get his permission.

http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/agesearch.html

Census Bureau
Jeffersonville, IN
812-218-3046
812-218-3371 Fax

Good luck, Peggy M

corrado · Post by **corrado** » 04 Nov 2007, 03:44

Is this the Chicago consulate? You mentioned he so I think not, or at least hope not. My greatgrandfather never natualized, but the census says that he was. If that want a census report what to do?

AnotherCitizenToBe · Post by **AnotherCitizenToBe** » 04 Nov 2007, 07:34

corrado wrote:... My greatgrandfather never natualized, but the census says that he was...

So, why are you so certain that he "never natualized"? How did you go about proving this fact?

corrado · Post by **corrado** » 04 Nov 2007, 14:36

I went though the records, they have been merged, both the county and the federal courts here in chicago, I checked at both the NARA on Pulaskie and at the Cook counth court house. Also a letter of non-existance of records should be enough should it not?

mler · Post by **mler** » 04 Nov 2007, 15:18

corrado wrote:I went though the records, they have been merged, both the county and the federal courts here in chicago, I checked at both the NARA on Pulaskie and at the Cook counth court house. Also a letter of non-existance of records should be enough should it not?

One would think so, but there are so many potential problems. A child, for example, could have naturalized with a parent, and there may be no record under his name.

It seems that some consulates are a bit concerned when no record is found. They wonder if there is indeed "no record" or if a record exists but has not been located. The "Certificate of Citizenship" and census data provide backup evidence.

People who claim citizenship through an ancestor who did naturalize have an easier path in that the naturalization papers document the renunciation and the date of renunciation. Therefore, no other proof is necessary.

AnotherCitizenToBe · Post by **AnotherCitizenToBe** » 04 Nov 2007, 15:26

corrado wrote:I went though the records, they have been merged, both the county and the federal courts here in chicago, I checked at both the NARA on Pulaskie and at the Cook counth court house. Also a letter of non-existance of records should be enough should it not?

Have you obtained his "long form" death certificate yet? All the death certificates I have seen (New York and Florida, anyway) indicate either whether the deceased was a "Citizen of the US (Y/N)?" or "Citizen of: ___".

I thought for certain that my grandfather did not naturalize; it was his death certificate (Citizen of the US (Y/N): Y) which was my first indication otherwise.

peggymckee · Post by **peggymckee** » 05 Nov 2007, 01:34

Hi Corrado--

I've been told that ancestry.com has naturalization information, although I haven't tried it myself. Try posting a request for a lookup. Lots of folks who post here have subscriptions.

Also the death certificate may have an SSN--good news because usually that means US citizenship. Have you tried the obvious--the SSDI?

And it's worth contacting the SS folks to see if GF has an SSN if it isn't on his death certificate. Once you have the SSN you can get the SS-5, the original application and that may give naturalization information. People had to prove they were eligible for SS--i.e. US citizenship.

Good luck, Peggy M.

corrado · Post by **corrado** » 08 Nov 2007, 05:23

thanks peggy

debbie6754 · Post by **debbie6754** » 25 Nov 2007, 15:32

I have access to ancestry.com. Tell me the name of your ancestor and what information you have. WW1 and WW2 draft registrations are now available.

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