NYC Sept 10th Appointment Recap GGF> GF> M> Self

[jennabet]

Mike, why do you need an Alien card for your ancestor?

[mike123]

just as proof of some name variations.

[jennabet]

Alien information was supposed to be purged once an Alien became a US citizen although some info in those old data bases could have been overlooked. If your ancestor did not naturalize, immigration (USCIS) might have it.

[mike123]

do if I ordered a search is that something they would inform me of?

[Gianna75010]

Jenna, Thanks for the info!! I'm so glad to hear that the USICS will issue a letter even with an alien file on record. I've done a search at nARA and there was no record of my GGF being naturalized. I guess I just have to be patient for the letter to come.

Mike, I got the alien file number of my GGF by doing a genealogy search through the USCIS. When I ordered the record through them, they told me that all Afiles below a certain number had been transfered to the National Archives in Kansas City. I contacted NARA at Kansas City directly (afiles.kansascity@nara.gov) and they were able to send me a certified copy of the alien file (I don't think i'll need it, but i have it just in case). I'm not sure if they can find the A-file if you don't know the number, but you can always try!!

[taxi55]

He then asked for his naturalization records. I supplied him with all records of not found.... from USCIS, NARA and Kings County Court.
You will need to make sure your USCIS Certificate of Nonexistence of Record states on line 4 that

"That after a diligent search was performed in these database system; no record is found to exist relating to the subject listed below" -- and that he did not become a United States Citizen. If your Certificate of Nonexistence of Record only states what I have in the above quotes, this will not do. I specifically wrote to Mr. Michael Quinn asking for the more specific wordage and supplied him w/ photocopies of all my records of non-existance. I did this on Aug 18th and had a response by Sept 3rd.


THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

Thanks for your thorough recap!!! Regarding the naturalization paperwork. Did you have proof/letters from any courts other than Kings County? The Consulate was OK with just one local Court County search? I was under the impression from other posters that they wanted more than one at the NYC Consulate.

Enjoy your day!
Sophia

[johnnyonthespot]

Did you have proof/letters from any courts other than Kings County? The Consulate was OK with just one local Court County search? I was under the impression from other posters that they wanted more than one at the NYC Consulate.

The usual rule is "No Records Found" letters from USCIS, the National Archives (NARA), and the local courts for each location in which your ancestor resided.

[LuigiF]

JavaisLife.. Great Job.

I enjoyed reading your detailed experience applying for your citizenship.
Reminds me of the quest for my Italian Citizenship..

You are almost there.. when your documents have been excepted by the Embassy, consulate.. they send them to Europe and it takes some time..took me (1) month depending on the Commune some take longer.
You will hear from your consulate and you should receive from the Commune a letter with a certified copy of your birth registration.

The Embassy will then ask you to come in and apply for you passport ..

Auguri

[taxi55]

Did you have proof/letters from any courts other than Kings County? The Consulate was OK with just one local Court County search? I was under the impression from other posters that they wanted more than one at the NYC Consulate.

The usual rule is "No Records Found" letters from USCIS, the National Archives (NARA), and the local courts for each location in which your ancestor resided.

Thanks for the clarification Carmine! So - just how much research does the Consulate do on their end to validate your paperwork? If someone (as in this poster's situation) has "No Records Found" from USCIS, NARA and the local court(s) in which the ancestor resided, do they still research to try to prove that there is naturalization paperwork out there somewhere?

Have a good one,
Sophia

[johnnyonthespot]

Sophia, I don't think anyone knows for certain what the consulate does to verify these things. I have read however that your consulate will contact the consulates having jurisdiction over each place your ancestor resided to see if they have any records regarding your ancestor's renunciation of Italian citizenship and also refer to a database maintained by Rome. But, again, no one knows for certain.

What is certain is that the consulates have really cracked down on "No Records Found" cases, probably in response to an Italian Government "Circolare" issued a few years ago warning of fraud in the jus sanguinis citizenship cases.

The document below translates roughly as:

SUBJECT: Forgery of documents in the procedures for the recognition of Italian citizenship jure sanguinis.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has highlighted issues relating to Ie
frequent cases of recognition of Italian citizenship obtained by presenting false or forged certificates.

The writing on the subject Directorate has already issued Circular No 26, June 10, 2007 with which he draws attention to the officers of civil status of placing the utmost caution in carrying out due to combat and prevent The phenomenon of counterfeiting of documents under the procedures relating to citizenship.

Considered both stress the need for carrying more and more careful checks on the documents presented in support of the practices for the recognition of Italian citizenship.

In those circumstances you want to pray the Lords Prefects again raise the mayors on the subject and want to ensure exact fulfillment of the above.

[JavaisLife]

Hi Sophia,

My case is a Little different, for my GGF returned to Italy, so I was able to get an additional ship manifest showing his travels between Italy And the US. I supplied an additional manifest showing him re-entering The US as an Italian Citizen. This helped remove any doubts.

If you have anything that would remove doubt. I would bring it.

- Marie

[JavaisLife]

Follow-up:
Im putting together my brothers application. I called The NYC consulate asking of I could reference documents from within my application I submitted on Sept 10th. They said of course .... Then, he went to look up my file. (I mentioned my apllication was still pending)... He mentioned that they were reviewing my application And they were discrepencies in my GF birth certificate. The BC was from 1905 in The NYC Municipal archives (read above).

Now, from what I read I cannot get that document changed. (error was on both mothers maiden names, spelled wrong or just wrong).

Now, i asked if i needed to submit more or Alternatives documents. He said no, And I will receive a letter. But- if they aré still reviewing The errors, shouldnt I be asked to fix the documenta?

Any advice if I could go about fixing old NyC documents (please Provide thread with process). As well, just your words of wisdom - does this still Look like à yay or ney?

Best,
M

[mike123]

Contact kenneth Cobb atthe municipal archives stating the documents can't be changed. archives@records.nyc.gov send the email there I don't know if the consulates will accept it but that's what I did. Mr Cobb is assistant commissioner of municipal archives.

Keep us posted on what happens

Best,
Mike

[JavaisLife]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for such a quick response. .... I actually submitted a letter from K. Cobb stating such "cannot be changed" (and had it translated into Italian) when I went for my appointment in Sept. The NYC consulate took all my papers - and said they would review my application.

I was told that, that would serfice ... but I am unsure after this phone conversation that it does (for as I mentioned in my post they said they were reviewing that document due to all of the 2 descrenpencies).

Now, I know that I called them prematurely, but it was regarding if I could use documents from my submitted application - they just happened to offer this information on the phone to give me a mini heart attack.

Best,
M

[sceaminmonkey]

o man that sucks. I have date issues. My ggf shows up as two years to old on one certificate. and one year to young on another. only correct certificate which is his death from 1940 states his age but not his bday. my ggm was apparently a liar to and lied about her age she shows up as two years to young as well. I am gona hope they take it. keep us posted! and if you find out to have a court amend it let me know!