U3b mtDNA subclade

[darkerhorse]

Cypress is such deep ancestry, that it probably has been watered down so much by now that it wouldn't show on your autosomal DNA test.

[MarcuccioV]

Cypress is such deep ancestry, that it probably has been watered down so much by now that it wouldn't show on your autosomal DNA test.

Since my 23&Me report shows "recent" ancestry to Sicily, and none to Cyprus, I have to think anything Cypriot is much further back. Even my Greek & ME is more recent.

I'm in the U3 DNA project on FTDNA, and awaiting acceptance into the U3b project. Perhaps that will give me further info.

On the U3 project, of those U3b's listed on their database, most are Italian/Sicilian, a few from Turkey, Macedonia and Hungary. Nothing indicating Cyprus...

[MarcuccioV]

I should have indicated that my subclade is U3b2. Most common to Sicily and possibly spread outward from there. that subclade is also Romani, who may also have carried it there. Other U3b subclades are also Med -based, but my focus is only on the U3b2 subclade...

[darkerhorse]

That's a horse of a different color, to quote a phrase.

Their map puts the origin around 19,000 BCE, about where you stated geographically. Map file is too large to post here.

Of men tested by FTDNA, countries in order of prevalence are:
Italy
Germany
Turkey
Russia
Greece
Macedonia

[MarcuccioV]

That's a horse of a different color, to quote a phrase.

Their map puts the origin around 19,000 BCE, about where you stated geographically. Map file is too large to post here.

Of men tested by FTDNA, countries in order of prevalence are:
Italy
Germany
Turkey
Russia
Greece
Macedonia

Thanks for the confirmation.

[david62]

Of course, it's interesting but it doesn't tell you much about your heritage, does it?

[MarcuccioV]

Had a chance to re-check my mtDNA matches on one of the U3b projects on FTDNA. I have one EXACT match (with a U3b2 subclade and all HVR1 & HVR2 mutations identical). His earliest listed ancestor is a Vito Giambalvo (male, so obviously his mother was the carrier) born in 1843 in Agrigento. I did a little research and found 2 Vito Giambalvo's from Santa Margherita di Belice, Agrigento. One born in 1837 with a mother's maiden name of Ippolito and another born in 1835 with mother's name of Liotta. Could not find anyone born in 1843, but that might be a red herring. According to the project administrator, an exact match has a common maternal ancestor within 15 gens. So I have to assume (based on approx birth year) that our MRCMA is somewhere between 5-15 gens back (most likely in that same region of Sicily). This explains at least partially the fairly strong Sicilian regionality in my DNA results. At least now I have a small line of research to follow -- where it takes me I'll just have to see...

[MarcuccioV]

I managed to trace back a few more generations, first to Patti (Messina) & then to Montagnareale (Messina). So far the farthest maternal ancestor is a Rosa La Greca from Montagnareale. One of my DNA matches, who has an extensive family tree (ALL Italian), has only ONE surname (out of literally dozens) I've even encountered in my family research -- La Greca. Maybe I'm on to something...

[darkerhorse]

FYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTCObdYGBq8

[MarcuccioV]

FYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTCObdYGBq8

Makes sense. But ancient ancestry aside, it seems my RECENT ancestry follows the same pattern -- as all those ethnicities, Sicilian, Greek, Levant, Anatolian, etc can be found in my DNA, indicating the same cycle (or the same ethnic inbreeding) continuing down through the centuries. I suppose anything is possible.

I think it would be foolish, however, to limit the possibilities to simply similar ethnic mixtures constantly interbreeding without any recent 'outside' influences.

I really need to try to learn more about the "burini" ('foreigners' that migrated into the Papal States in order to farm the Roman countryside, of which much was apparently still in an unimproved state) that appeared there in the 18th-19th centuries. Almost all the relatives I have discovered thus far were 'contadini' (tenant farmers/sharecroppers) and not 'tradesmen' (carpenters/masons, merchants, shoemakers, etc) which fits that description.

I also have to at least consider all the DNA matches which I find to be from parts of the southern peninsula/Sicily with close enough centimorgan ranges to be 5th-8th cousins (far closer than ancient Romans).

Another oddity is far more of my Italian DNA matches have familial connections from OUTSIDE of Rome -- I have some local matches to the area, but they are definitely in the minority.

So in short, I think it's a much more complex scenario than it appears, and most likely is a yet another mixture; that of the mixed Roman DNA plus more recent migratory DNA.

The saga continues...

[MarcuccioV]

Also, if the U3b2 subclade were part of this ancient Roman 'mixture', then it would, I could surmise, be common among the Roman populations in Lazio due to consistent breeding over centuries, but seems to be confined almost utterly to Sicilian populations (and almost nowhere else on the peninsula, except in microscopic numbers which doesn't seem to fit a long-term rooting up north).

Again, that leads me logically to believe in a much more recent migration of only perhaps an individual or two carrying such a rare haplotype rather than it having a long term (or even ancient) presence.

As my grandmother would often say -- "Bu..?"

[darkerhorse]

Meaning, stop repeating the same thing?

[MarcuccioV]

Meaning, stop repeating the same thing?

"Bu" was her "IDK". I've never heard anyone else use it; the closest to come to it was our Barese neighbors who said "e'be". My Aunt's mother (from near Palermo) used something like "l'anga" or just "anga". Those Italians and their dialects, LOL...

[darkerhorse]

I've heard it pronounced more like "bo" (rhymes with no). I think, "I don't know, stop asking" would be accurate.

[MarcuccioV]

I've heard it pronounced more like "bo" (rhymes with no). I think, "I don't know, stop asking" would be accurate.

She definitely used the "u" sound. She pronounced many other words ending in 'o' with the long o, but never this. It's possible my grandfather used it too, & maybe with the o, but I recall her doing it specifically -- and often...