Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
I got an email from NARA saying they have copies of naturalization pre 1907 but they are copies and the originals are at the county clerk and they might have more comprehensive records. So I should check with them because they might have a naturalization record. My heart sunk when I read that. Im wondering if its possible that NARA doesnt have it but the county does. But it makes no sense because they said they have copies of the records at the clerks office. So do they have it or dont they at NARA? Is anyone familiar with this? Is there anyway to check online?
NARA did not have records for either of my grandfathers. The NARA researcher suggusted I contact the Westchester County, NY, archives because it would have been likely that they naturalized in state or county court and NARA does not hold those records in the New York area.
I was able to obtain both grandfather's naturalization documents from the Westchester County Archives. It turns out that both were naturalized in the "Supreme Court of the State of New York at White Plains".
Side note: I was researching my maternal grandparents for purely genealogical purposes at the same time that I was seeking my paternal line for dual citizenship. After having such great success with my paternal grandfathers naturalization papers, I wrote to the county archives and requested a search for my maternal grandfather; the documents arrived a week or so later.
Time passes and I put aside the maternal line while concentrating on my dual citizenship application...
Many months later, I picked up the maternal line again and, completely forgetting that I had already obtained my grandfather's naturalization docs, I wrote to the county archives requesting them. How dumb is that?
Anyway, after a few weeks, I received a letter from the county archivist which said in part, "Per your request, we did a thorough search of our naturalization indexes, trying many variations on the spelling of the name. Unfortunately, we did not locate a record for xxxxx xxxxx."
I had already realized my error (double ordering) by this point, so I compared my original request with the more recent request. They were identical in all important aspects. Having found the documents the first time many months before, there was no logical reason whatsoever why they should not have found them the second time around.
Which just goes to show - even when a competent authority says no records exist, well, perhaps they do...
Carmine
My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me!
Oh man, thats not what I want to hear!! They told me they have copies not originals. I dont see what the difference is? They said "yes we have manahattan pre 1907 records but they are copies not originals. The county clerk might be more comprehensive" It makes no sense. But the fact that I got my hopes up and figured everything is in order, he didnt naturalize, now this. Now Im scared, this stinks.So NARA gives me 2 numbers to call. No one is answering. No one in manhattan at the clerks office. Amazing!
NARA is an archive - they only "hold" the records sent to them. Things happen, records get lost, misfiled and errors occur. It is possible that the court with the original records missed copying a record or even a book of records. How complete the copies are depends on the quality control check for the copying process. Some employees are much more careful about their work than others. All you can do is request a check and see what comes back. Everything so far as indicated he did not naturalize so think positive thoughts.
Oh, I understand now. Do you know how I would go about getting a record from the county clerk. I havent seen anything so far on a website as far as requesting a record either online or through the mail. The couple things Ive come across said they dont have records, but NARA does!! Its a little confusing.
I talked to someone on the phone. I just wanted to give the info for future reference if anyone else should need it:
New York County Clerk
Phone-646-386-5395 ask for Bruce for old records
Send a $10 money order payable to NY county clerk with all information you have on your ancestor. They will do a search and if nothing comes up they send a letter of no record.
Let us know how it goes. Why not also ask NARA to send you copies of their copies. The copies may include some information that may be helpful to you, or it's also possible that they are for a different person.
Happy to hear your news about the quick reply from the county clerk office. I am in the same position as you and need them to confirm NARA's and USCIS letters of non-existence.
What kind of info on your ancestor did you send to the county clerk Alicia? I would like to mail my request to them this week to see what they have on file for my ancestor. Any info is appreciated!
I told them his Italian name and the English form he used, date of birth, date of arrival, place of birth, and what time period I need searched. They told me to be specific as possible to help them search better.
I didnt provide addresses or info on his spouse or children. But that is only because the time period they had to check I knew he wasnt married or had children yet. But if that applies to you I would give that info too. I just typed it up on a word document. You dont have to provide any documentation or anything like that.
The typical Italian lineage dates from circa 1600, and for most of us that's reasonably profound. But who wants to be "typical" when you might be able to trace a lineage into the 1500s or even into the Middle Ages? Because success in this field requires practice and perseverance, as well as skills m...
