If naturalized before July 1, 1912

[CalamariGirl]

The Irish citizenship through a great grandparent was proposed just last year:

"This new proposal to allow Americans whose nearest Irish ancestor is a great-grandparent to qualify for citizenship, provided that they have spent considerable time studying or working in Ireland, will open the possibility of Irish citizen to many people."
http://www.irish-roots.ie/view-details.asp?NewsID=106
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/world ... irish.html

I hope something works out for you soon.

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE POST FOR AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.

[DeFilippis78]

Thanks , I read it. Its different than Italian law because the person applying has to have spent considerable amount of time working or studying in Ireland. With Italy, its doesnt matter if youve ever worked or studied there, its still a right. Thanks for the link

Alicia

[CowryShells]

Here is the current info, from the source:
http://www.embassyofireland.org/home/in ... x?id=30818

The great grandparent link was a proposal, not yet part of the law, but there is hope the law will change. See the links in my post just above.

[DeFilippis78]

It doesnt matter for me, I was asking for a friend. But thanks anyway

Alicia

[CowryShells]

<<<< Its different than Italian law because the person applying has to have spent considerable amount of time working or studying in Ireland. >>>>

There are other, quite striking, differences too. It is not extended to future generations. If I receive Irish citizenship today (my name goes into the foreign births registry), my citizenship would only be passed on to children born to me in the future. However, my children who are already born are out of luck. Also, my future children cannot pass it on to their children unless their children are born in Ireland.

Edit: I forgot to mention, it's only the proposed great grandparent connection to citizenship that would require the time in Ireland. The current law, going through a parent or grandparent, does not.

[teddi]

Prior to that date, when a native-born Italian (your great great grandfather) naturalized in another country, he gave up not only his own Italian citizenship but also that of all of his minor children, regardless of where they were born.

On or after that date, only children born in Italy automatically lost their right to Italian citizenship when thier father naturalized; children born in (for example) the US were not affected.

This isn't correct. Legge 555/1912 article 7 states:

Salvo speciali disposizioni da stipulare con trattati internazionali il cittadino italiano nato e residente in uno stato estero, dal quale sia ritenuto proprio cittadino per nascita, conserva la cittadinanza italiana, ma divenuto maggiorenne o emancipato, può rinunziarvi

Under the 1912 law, an Italian child born in a jure solis country (like the US), in which they automatically have citizenship by birth, also retains Italian citizenship (unless they renounce at age of majority). There is nothing saying only children born in Italy are naturalized with father- a child born in any country other than the jure solis country where father is naturalizing would lose Italian citizenship as well.

Prior to the 1912 law, there was no guidance on how to handle children born in jure solis countries in which the father later naturalizes. Most consulates take the common sense view that an Italian child born with jure solis citizenship could not naturalize to that same citizenship with father (they don't become double US citizens, for example). SF and NY consulates contend that the child naturalizes as a US citizen with father, despite already being born a US citizen.

NY & SF consulates have been enforcing this for quite awhile- it's not new.

[CalamariGirl]

I don't quite understand what you're saying, but basically - them enforcing the 1912 law is not new and perhaps I should have applied at the LA consulate (I could technically claim California residence because I still have a CADL) as they don't seem to enforce the 1912 law as much?

Can you re-apply in a different jurisdiction?

[teddi]

Sure, you could apply at LA if you have CA DL and an address in the LA consular district.

[DeFilippis78]

You have to apply to the consulate closest to where you live

Alicia

[sforza]

Most consulates take the common sense view that an Italian child born with jure solis citizenship could not naturalize to that same citizenship with father (they don't become double US citizens, for example). SF and NY consulates contend that the child naturalizes as a US citizen with father, despite already being born a US citizen.

NY & SF consulates have been enforcing this for quite awhile- it's not new.

I've written the Newark consulate to get their view - I'd like for my dad to apply with my mother, although his GGF naturalized in 1893. The consulate did not provide a clear answer - stated that all questions would be answered at the appt. Frankly, I'd rather not find out at the appt.

Has anyone had any problems w/pre-1912 naturalizations at the Newark consulate?
If there is a even a potential for trouble, should I abandon iure sanguinis and have my dad apply suo matrimonio?

[Laura_SF]

Hi -

I know this thread is a bit old, but hoping those knowledgeable will revive it.

Am in a similar boat: Italian great grandfather naturalized in 1905, grandfather born in the US in 1900. Can I apply for citizenship directly to the embassy? What about directly in an appropriate office in Italy? Any knowledge about the LA consulate in these matters?

I suppose petitioning the SF consulate to waive this rule directly would be useless...
thanks!

[sforza]

Well, I found out the hard way that Newark enforces the 1865 civil code (meaning that they assume the minor children of pre-1912 "naturalizers" naturalize along with the parents). There are only a handful of consulates in the US that don't enforce it - Philadelphia being one, and I think I've heard Houston(?) and Detroit(?) may be OK too.
From your description, you would not be eligible to apply in SF.
Good question about applying in Italy, though.

[kontessa]

Perhaps the only way to know for sure whether or not a comune in Italy might enforce the 1912 ruling would be if you were to find out beforehand or you know of someone who has already been through the process in a comune that you could ask - just like finding out what is required from the various consulates. It was used as a discriminator in my comune when I applied in Italy, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn if many others enforced the ruling as well.

[jennabet]

.....she would have to prove sufficient resources (cash in bank, social security, etc), proof of health insurance, and a pre-arranged place to live....

Nope, cash in bank doesn't cut it because one could withdraw every penny before they get to Italy and be broke when they arrive. US Social Security and/or a pension from a reliable source outside of Italy is what they want to see. But social security on it's own (max about 1,600/mo) is not enough.

[kontessa]

.....she would have to prove sufficient resources (cash in bank, social security, etc), proof of health insurance, and a pre-arranged place to live....

Nope, cash in bank doesn't cut it because one could withdraw every penny before they get to Italy and be broke when they arrive. US Social Security and/or a pension from a reliable source outside of Italy is what they want to see. But social security on it's own (max about 1,600/mo) is not enough.

To clarify, the quote noted above was taken from a post by johnnyonthespot on the previous page dated 2010.

Actually, I know several people who obtained ER visas, citing investments and cash in the bank. They were not retired, so were not collecting a pension or SS. Requirements could have changed recently, though - best to find out by obtaining more up to date information from people that have recent experience obtaining this type of visa and which consulate they used.