Having a bad week.. Will consulates accept ship manifest

[sceaminmonkey]

So I guess my last post did not go through. But with the letter I wrote based on the link and letter that carmine has generously provided, will they let me know if there is a record of not reporting for duty? does anyone know what documents besides military, bith, baptismal the consulate will accept? so far I have been given great suggestions but I am just trying to prepare myself. My appointment is December 9th 2010! its all I can think about!

[johnnyonthespot]

A military record is a military record. Even if it justs lists his name, parent's names, place, and date of birth along with a simple "Deserter!" comment, it is still a military record.

As to what the consulate will accept, my impression is that most consulates will accept only a birth certificate, an Italian passport showing that it was still valid on or after the date of birth of the next-in-lineage, or a Certificato di Cittadinanza (Certificate of Citiznship) issued by the ancestral comune indicating that the person was an Italian citizen on the date in question.

I don't believe the military record, if found, will be acceptable to the consulate; however it may be good enough to convince the officials in Naples to re-create the missing/destroyed birth record and then issue a birth certificate.

[sceaminmonkey]

Have you actually ever heard of consulates issuing new birth records for records that were destroyed during the war?

[johnnyonthespot]

Have you actually ever heard of consulates issuing new birth records for records that were destroyed during the war?

Not consulates, but comuni.

A great example would be Cassino where ALL records were destroyed during heavy bombing of WWII. The monastery was destroyed with ALL church records and the civil offices were destroyed with ALL civil records.

After the war, the records for persons still living and recent generations were re-created based on the sworn statements and/or personal documents held by residents. See Trafford R. Cole's book, Italian Genealogical Records: How to Use Italian Civil, Ecclesiastical, & Other Records in Family History Research, starting with the parenthetical statement on line 4, here: http://books.google.com/books?id=i_qgMM ... &q&f=false

[sceaminmonkey]

ahh I see. It seems every time I am given a new suggestion a new obstacle comes in to affect. I do believe all original documents are gone. is there any chance the consulate will be satisfied with just naturalization documents showing he was an Italian at the time of my grandfathers birth?

[kontessa]

I responded to your other post, and have now read about what is going on with your case. I agree with johnnyonthespot on every issue you've discussed thus far. I understand that you are anxious about not having the birth record for your GGF. Add to that, the fact that you are applying at one of the tougher consulates AND the missing record is in your direct line. I don't want to discourage you, but when you ask if the consulate will be satisfied with a naturalization document in lieu of a birth record, I would have to say no. I have heard that some of the consulates (don't know which) will accept a baptismal certificate in place of a missing birth record. You will never know for sure until you try to present one in NYC.

It's difficult being on the other side of the world worrying about documents and proof that you need to support your case and not being able to physically go after them yourself. Have you given any serious consideration to the suggestion to hire someone to do this work for you?

[ricbru]

italian consulate accept bapt certificate, if there is a no record certificate from italian civil record office, I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

[sceaminmonkey]

yes I have. I would be more than happy to hire someone in Naples to do the work. If you know anyone please let me know or if you know any service in naples foward me the information. and yes sadly I am very anxious I hired two services to get birth certificates and have not got a single result as well as services to get naturalization records etc. I am close to 1000 dollar bill which seems to be a waste and even more frustrating not getting a citizenship which I technically already have. Please help if you have any information. and what would I need to apply at a different consulate such as newark? I do get some mail in jersey. are they any better?

[ricbru]

First of all you need to apply only to italian consulate closest to where you are resident. In Campania region there is joe de simone, or if you want you can contact me again, and you explain me all your situation, i'm here to help
bye Riccardo

[sceaminmonkey]

could you foward me joe's email?

[ricbru]

Here it is

http://www.avellinorental.com/english/c ... nglish.htm


I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

could you foward me joe's email?

[kontessa]

You have a wonderful suggestion from Riccardo for assistance. As for hiring services to obtain documents, you say that you 'have not got a single result'...they reported back to you that no record exists, or you haven't heard anything from them? If they came back with no record existing, I would hire an individual to track down a baptismal certificate or SOMETHING.

Money spent on dual citizenship...my total is shocking (more than 10 times what you've spent already), but worth every last penny to me. More difficult cases sometimes require more work. It is a very personal decision.

[sceaminmonkey]

One commune for my GGM sent a reply of no record. Naples for my GGF did not send a letter of no record yet but they have informed my researcher that the record is destroyed. and I am more than willing to spend more money I just hope it produces results. and Kontessa I would love to hear the details of your case if it were more difficult I am always looking for guidance! thanks for your posts!

[ricbru]

if your researcher is a serious one, he should provide you a certificate of no record from the italian civil record office, no flying words.
you spend money and you need to have positive or negative records in your hands.
I dont know your researcher but how can you prove he did the research, or somebody else did it?
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

[sceaminmonkey]

Both researchers provided results from the same communes. Both showed birth certificates for my ggm brother Ernesto and others. One even included the letterfrom the worker in the commune explaining the efforts he made and explaing the results and how the people he did did must be related because of adress's etc