Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
We had our appointment this week. We had all our documents except for one missing marriage certificate for my grandparents (both Italian born). We have my father's birth certificate, listing them as the parents. We have searched all over the city of New York, all the churches, as well as their hometown in Italy. In all of our research, we were repeatedly told to just bring the search results as well as a certified copy of the census from after my father was born listing them as husband and wife by anyone who knew anything about this process.
Well, the consulate turned us away and said they never would accept that. I know this to be inaccurate, as I know others who have done this....but here we are.
I set another appointment (nearly three years from now), but am seeking advise on what I can do next if I still cannot locate this one document.
A census listing them as living at the same address doesn't prove they were married or that the man at that address is the father of the woman's child. That's why the consulate wouldn't accept your case.
Italian citizenship law doesn't require marriage to pass on citizenship. If your grandfather acknowledged that he was the father of your dad, he passed citizenship to his son. The consulates, however, can make things difficult if they choose to do so, and apparently, your consulate has chosen that path.
If you are willing to spend some money, you may want to contact an Italian lawyer to submit your application in Italy.
AlliG wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 19:39
In all of our research, we were repeatedly told to just bring the search results as well as a certified copy of the census from after my father was born listing them as husband and wife by anyone who knew anything about this process. Well, the consulate turned us away and said they never would accept that. I know this to be inaccurate, as I know others who have done this....but here we are.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience based on information you received from others who claimed to know something about the process. But as you now know, there is still some bad information out there despite some providers being banned from other websites.
Instead of considering the information the consulate gave you as inaccurate, perhaps you shouldn't take as gospel everything you read online. It's only common sense that a census does not prove that a man living with a woman is the father of that woman's child if the couple is not legally married to one another, whether or not his name appears on a birth certificate.
If your grand-parents are still alive, perhaps you can get the man to make some sort of a written statement. Other than that I think you're at a dead end and especially because the consulate didn't offer any solutions. Bottom line. The consulates are usually always right. Their rules/instructions for citizenship are laid out very clearly on their websites. All you have to do is follow them and come up with the right documents.
And by the way, a man who is NOT the biological (blood) father of a child, does NOT pass Italian citizenship (by blood) to that child and such an assumption is ridiculous and wrong.
The father's name on the birth certificate is a legal acknowledgment of paternity. Short of a DNA test, a written statement by the father is no more proof of a biological connection than his name on the birth certificate. But jennabet is correct in that you need to get a definitive answer. When I was applying, quite a few years ago, I got different information from the consulate at different times (actually from the same man). I would suggest a lawyer.
I should add that although the term used is "jure sanguinis" (citizenship by blood) a legally adopted non biological child of an Italian citizen also obtains Italian citizenship if the adoption took place when the child was a minor.
So adoptions must be LEGAL, but a LEGAL Marriage Certificate or some other proof of marriage to prove paternity of a biological child whose "father" is deceased is not necessary? Hogwash.
Please show us the citizenship law stating a father can only pass citizenship to his child if he is legally married to the mother. You won't find it because there is none. If that were the case illegitimate children in Italy would not be Italian citizens, and that is certainly not the case.
The fact is that a marriage certificate only proves marriage; it does not prove paternity. The birth certificate proves paternity. This is definitely a situation in which a lawyer can help. Go for it.
Sorry but you are incorrect. In Italy, the husband of a legally married woman is the father of her child even if the couple is separated -- unless she AND he state otherwise. I have a case in my own family. These people are deceased. There is absolutely no way to prove that the unmarried man on the birth certificate is the father of the unmarried woman's child -- other than a marriage certificate, of course, which so far does not exist.
mler wrote: ↑09 Feb 2017, 22:30
Please show us the citizenship law stating a father can only pass citizenship to his child if he is legally married to the mother. You won't find it because there is none. If that were the case illegitimate children in Italy would not be Italian citizens, and that is certainly not the case.
The fact is that a marriage certificate only proves marriage; it does not prove paternity. The birth certificate proves paternity. This is definitely a situation in which a lawyer can help. Go for it.
Illegitimate children in Italy are Italian citizens because their mother's are Italian citizens or because the mother can prove the unmarried father is an Italian citizen through action by the courts. But courts don't have any jurisdiction over unmarried dead people. DUH!
Good grief! The birth certificate lists the names of BOTH parents. It is a legal document that establishes parentage. Either parent listed on the birth certificate can access the child's records, can obtain a birth certificate on behalf of the minor child (no easy feat today), and, in cases of divorce, is responsible for child care costs. Courts don't need jurisdiction over unmarried dead people. They need simply check birth records.
I repeat: the marriage certificate only proves two people were married, nothing else.
Actually, this entire discussion is a waste of time. Why not let a lawyer handle this issue?
Just to clarify: In 1930, unmarried Maria gives birth to a child, and Giovanni is listed as the father on the birth certificate, but he dies immediately after the child's birth. Even without the marriage certificate the child obtains Italian citizenship from the father listed on his birth certificate (pre 1948, the mother cannot herself transmit citizenship).
That's because the mother, Maria, and the family of deceased Giovanni were still alive to take it through the courts at that time. In Italy, a father's name on the birth certificate for the child of an unwed mother does not prove anything as such a mother could name the man in the moon as the father of her child if she wants to. In Italy, if a woman is married, only her legal husband is considered the father of her child.
There has been a strong custom in Italy that determines how children are named: The first male is named after his paternal grandfather.The second male is named after his maternal grandfather.The first female is named after her paternal grandmother.The second female is named after her maternal grandm...