Citizenship question

[AmandaP]

Hello! I'm a little confused on the duel US/Italian citizenship process. I was born in the US, 3rd generation "Italian American". Can I apply for duel citizenship if my great grandparents were from Italy or how does that work? I might have just misunderstood what someone said, too. If provide enought "proof" of your italian heritage, can you get Italian citizenship? Could someone please provide a website with more info? I'm 100% new to this. I have never applied for a visa or anything like that.

[mler]

Just having great grandparents who were Italian isn’t enough. You need to trace actual citizenship from generation to generation down to you.

So, start with great grandparents. Where were they born? Did they naturalize? If so, when?

Next generation (grandparents). Where were they born? When were they born?

Parents: same questions.

If you have specific dates, I’d be happy to help.

Alternately, there is an excellent dual citizenship site here:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/

You will also find an excellent resource on Facebook.

[AmandaP]

Just having great grandparents who were Italian isn’t enough. You need to trace actual citizenship from generation to generation down to you.

So, start with great grandparents. Where were they born? Did they naturalize? If so, when?

Next generation (grandparents). Where were they born? When were they born?

Parents: same questions.

If you have specific dates, I’d be happy to help.

Alternately, there is an excellent dual citizenship site here:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/

You will also find an excellent resource on Facebook.

Thank you! I think I misunderstood what someone had said. I'll check the website out just for fun but I don't I'll be applying for a duel citizenship, but the process sounds interesting. My great grandfather was born in luzzano, Benevento, Italy in 1891, came to the US in 1910/1911, became a US citizen in 1913. His wife's parents immigrated from Italy in the 1900s. My grandfather was born here. Same with my father. I don't think I would "qualify" for a citizenship lol.

[bbivona]

You definitely could qualify. The timing of the citizenship of your great grandfather is going to be where you need to look. You need an unbroken chain of citizenship. Once your GGF naturalized, he presumably renounced his Italian citizenship. If your grandfather was born in the US after your GGF naturalized, you probably have a problem. On the other hand, if your grandfather was born in the US before your GGF naturalized, you're probably ok, because your grandfather would have been born the son of man who was still an Italian citizen and so he would have had dual citizenship. When your GGF naturalized he would have lost his Italian citizenship, but if your grandfather was entitled to dual citizenship because he had been born earlier, he would not have lost his due to your GGF's naturalization and the chain would not be broken.

I have qualified with my GGF. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US. My grandfather and father were born here. Because my GGF never naturalized, he never lost his Italian citizenship, so my grandfather and father have theirs, and I'm able to establish mine too. GGF is as far back as you can go for jure sanguinis.

[AmandaP]

You definitely could qualify. The timing of the citizenship of your great grandfather is going to be where you need to look. You need an unbroken chain of citizenship. Once your GGF naturalized, he presumably renounced his Italian citizenship. If your grandfather was born in the US after your GGF naturalized, you probably have a problem. On the other hand, if your grandfather was born in the US before your GGF naturalized, you're probably ok, because your grandfather would have been born the son of man who was still an Italian citizen and so he would have had dual citizenship. When your GGF naturalized he would have lost his Italian citizenship, but if your grandfather was entitled to dual citizenship because he had been born earlier, he would not have lost his due to your GGF's naturalization and the chain would not be broken.

I have qualified with my GGF. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US. My grandfather and father were born here. Because my GGF never naturalized, he never lost his Italian citizenship, so my grandfather and father have theirs, and I'm able to establish mine too. GGF is as far back as you can go for jure sanguinis.

Ok, now that makes more sense. Thank you for explaining it for me. My grandfather was born in the US in 1923 so the chain would be broken on the Amoriello side, sadly. But I'm going to check on my GGM side, the Cozzone side. I know she was born in the US, I'm just not sure if she born before or after her parents became citizens.

[AmandaP]

You definitely could qualify. The timing of the citizenship of your great grandfather is going to be where you need to look. You need an unbroken chain of citizenship. Once your GGF naturalized, he presumably renounced his Italian citizenship. If your grandfather was born in the US after your GGF naturalized, you probably have a problem. On the other hand, if your grandfather was born in the US before your GGF naturalized, you're probably ok, because your grandfather would have been born the son of man who was still an Italian citizen and so he would have had dual citizenship. When your GGF naturalized he would have lost his Italian citizenship, but if your grandfather was entitled to dual citizenship because he had been born earlier, he would not have lost his due to your GGF's naturalization and the chain would not be broken.

I have qualified with my GGF. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US. My grandfather and father were born here. Because my GGF never naturalized, he never lost his Italian citizenship, so my grandfather and father have theirs, and I'm able to establish mine too. GGF is as far back as you can go for jure sanguinis.

Oh my mistake! I just saw you can't go back any further than GGPs.

[AmandaP]

You definitely could qualify. The timing of the citizenship of your great grandfather is going to be where you need to look. You need an unbroken chain of citizenship. Once your GGF naturalized, he presumably renounced his Italian citizenship. If your grandfather was born in the US after your GGF naturalized, you probably have a problem. On the other hand, if your grandfather was born in the US before your GGF naturalized, you're probably ok, because your grandfather would have been born the son of man who was still an Italian citizen and so he would have had dual citizenship. When your GGF naturalized he would have lost his Italian citizenship, but if your grandfather was entitled to dual citizenship because he had been born earlier, he would not have lost his due to your GGF's naturalization and the chain would not be broken.

I have qualified with my GGF. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US. My grandfather and father were born here. Because my GGF never naturalized, he never lost his Italian citizenship, so my grandfather and father have theirs, and I'm able to establish mine too. GGF is as far back as you can go for jure sanguinis.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... AQPW8-JZ26

The link is to my 2GGF's citizenship. My GGM Mary's birth year is 1904. So would that be a qualifying factor or no?

[bbivona]

You definitely could qualify. The timing of the citizenship of your great grandfather is going to be where you need to look. You need an unbroken chain of citizenship. Once your GGF naturalized, he presumably renounced his Italian citizenship. If your grandfather was born in the US after your GGF naturalized, you probably have a problem. On the other hand, if your grandfather was born in the US before your GGF naturalized, you're probably ok, because your grandfather would have been born the son of man who was still an Italian citizen and so he would have had dual citizenship. When your GGF naturalized he would have lost his Italian citizenship, but if your grandfather was entitled to dual citizenship because he had been born earlier, he would not have lost his due to your GGF's naturalization and the chain would not be broken.

I have qualified with my GGF. He was born in Sicily and moved to the US. My grandfather and father were born here. Because my GGF never naturalized, he never lost his Italian citizenship, so my grandfather and father have theirs, and I'm able to establish mine too. GGF is as far back as you can go for jure sanguinis.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... AQPW8-JZ26

The link is to my 2GGF's citizenship. My GGM Mary's birth year is 1904. So would that be a qualifying factor or no?

Mary was born in the US, so it would be her parents who were born in Italy, your 2nd great grandparents. My understanding of the rules is that your connection to someone born in Italy is too remote, at least on her line.

[mler]

Actually, you DO qualify, but it’s through your ggm, which would make it a 1948 case. When your ggf naturalized in 1913, your ggm naturalized with him (pre-Cable Act law). Since she never naturalized on her own behalf, her son (your gf) obtained citizenship through her. (The scenario I just described applies if your ggm was born in Italy. If your ggm was born in the US, she became an Italian citizen when she married her Italian husband, and she did not lose that citizenship when he naturalized. So you would qualify in that case as well.) This, by the way, would be the Amoriello line.

On your other line, more information is needed, but I suspect you would qualify through that line too. There are no generational limits as far as Italian citizenship is concerned. People have qualified going back to ggg grandparents without issue. You would just need more documentation.

[AmandaP]

Actually, you DO qualify, but it’s through your ggm, which would make it a 1948 case. When your ggf naturalized in 1913, your ggm naturalized with him (pre-Cable Act law). Since she never naturalized on her own behalf, her son (your gf) obtained citizenship through her. (The scenario I just described applies if your ggm was born in Italy. If your ggm was born in the US, she became an Italian citizen when she married her Italian husband, and she did not lose that citizenship when he naturalized. So you would qualify in that case as well.) This, by the way, would be the Amoriello line.

On your other line, more information is needed, but I suspect you would qualify through that line too. There are no generational limits as far as Italian citizenship is concerned. People have qualified going back to ggg grandparents without issue. You would just need more documentation.

I'll have to double check the Amoriello line. My ggf and ggm weren't married until 1920, I should have mentioned there was a big age gap between them, I believe a 13 year difference. And my mistake, my ggf came to the US in 1913 and wasn't naturalized until he joined the army for WW1. My ggm was born in the US, however her father was not naturalized until after she was born. My ggm' s birth mother died before she had a chance at US citizenship.

[bbivona]

Actually, you DO qualify, but it’s through your ggm, which would make it a 1948 case. When your ggf naturalized in 1913, your ggm naturalized with him (pre-Cable Act law). Since she never naturalized on her own behalf, her son (your gf) obtained citizenship through her. (The scenario I just described applies if your ggm was born in Italy. If your ggm was born in the US, she became an Italian citizen when she married her Italian husband, and she did not lose that citizenship when he naturalized. So you would qualify in that case as well.) This, by the way, would be the Amoriello line.

On your other line, more information is needed, but I suspect you would qualify through that line too. There are no generational limits as far as Italian citizenship is concerned. People have qualified going back to ggg grandparents without issue. You would just need more documentation.

Looking at the rules, I believe you're correct. I was basing my GGF limit statement based on something I was told at the Italian consulate, but I think it may have been something specific to my own situation. I apologize for the confusion.

[mler]

You then seem to have a solid case (albeit 1948) through your ggm. Since she obtained US citizenship by birth in the US and Italian citizenship from her not-yet-naturalized Italian father, she remained a citizen when her child was born.

The only potential problem here would be if her father naturalized before the 1912 law was enacted. If so, we would need to look to his wife.

Check your other lines as well. With several possibilities, you can then choose the one that is the easiest to document.

[AmandaP]

You then seem to have a solid case (albeit 1948) through your ggm. Since she obtained US citizenship by birth in the US and Italian citizenship from her not-yet-naturalized Italian father, she remained a citizen when her child was born.

The only potential problem here would be if her father naturalized before the 1912 law was enacted. If so, we would need to look to his wife.

Check your other lines as well. With several possibilities, you can then choose the one that is the easiest to document.

Ok, I think we might be on to something because my ggm' s father wasn't naturalized until after 1920. On his 1920 census record he was still listed as an alien, then on the 1930 census he's listed as naturalized. I have a ton of documentation on my ggf's side (amoriello line). I've been working on one line at a time, and have just started on my ggm side, the Cozzone line. So I don't have a lot on them yet.

[mler]

Looks good.

Once you’ve done your research, campare the lines to see which works best.