Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
JonJCurtoJr
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Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by JonJCurtoJr »

One of the final pieces I need to submit my application for dual Italian-US citizenship is proof that my great-grandfather, Natale Salvatore Curto, born in Cosenza, Calabria 24 December 1885 was still a citizen of Italy when he passed away in Ozone Park, Queens, NY on 30 December 1958 (and thus was NOT naturalized as a US Citizen).

His Death Certificate lists “Country of Citizenship at time of Death” as “Italy”. I guess this declaration isn’t sufficient for the Italian Government to satisfy the non-naturalization requirement?

I searched the ItalianGen.org databases and found a one line entry for a petition that looks to be him in 1937. But, no accompanying declaration or anything of the sort for any of the names he would go by.

Am I missing something? Is there any help or guidance anyone here could offer?

I've checked the 1940 Census and he is listed as an Alien (AL?), so he seems to have retained his Italian citizenship throughout his life. From what I can see, it looks like my great-grandmother Maria "Marietta" Aquila did as well.

I plan on mailing in the request to USCIS for the non-existence paperwork, but just wanted to try to cover as many bases as possible beforehand (and hopefully allay some fears).

Grazie mille!
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

It appears you have the steps in order, USCIS to start as I noted in another thread expect a lengthy delay to get the results, I’m still waiting after 4-6 months of submission.

You could also search the local county courthouse your GGF lived in for records of naturalization. You will be required to have the courthouse send a certified letter of no record found, so it’s good to get that sorted out.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by JonJCurtoJr »

afecad wrote: 28 Feb 2021, 01:19 It appears you have the steps in order, USCIS to start as I noted in another thread expect a lengthy delay to get the results, I’m still waiting after 4-6 months of submission.

You could also search the local county courthouse your GGF lived in for records of naturalization. You will be required to have the courthouse send a certified letter of no record found, so it’s good to get that sorted out.
Thanks afecad,

I did some further research and the individual from 1937 that I originally thought was him turns out to be someone else living in Manhattan, listed as single, with an entirely different birth date, etc. than my GGF.

I was hoping to have his birth certificate to send along to USCIS before submitting my letter, but I'm not sure I should wait for that now given how difficult it has been finding it.

I do have his Death Certificate, but the birth year is incorrect, as it appears that my GGM was providing the information and mistakenly gave them her birth year, which they even misinterpreted as being 1897 instead of 1892.

Did you send any accompanying documentation with your request? What would you recommend I send with mine? I have the 1930 and 1940 Censuses, WWI and WWII Draft Registration cards, and his death certificate at this point. We're still waiting for my GF (Natale's son's) birth certificate and Natale and my GGM's marriage license.

Thanks again!
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

JonJCurtoJr wrote: 28 Feb 2021, 21:52

Thanks afecad,

I did some further research and the individual from 1937 that I originally thought was him turns out to be someone else living in Manhattan, listed as single, with an entirely different birth date, etc. than my GGF.

I was hoping to have his birth certificate to send along to USCIS before submitting my letter, but I'm not sure I should wait for that now given how difficult it has been finding it.

I do have his Death Certificate, but the birth year is incorrect, as it appears that my GGM was providing the information and mistakenly gave them her birth year, which they even misinterpreted as being 1897 instead of 1892.

Did you send any accompanying documentation with your request? What would you recommend I send with mine? I have the 1930 and 1940 Censuses, WWI and WWII Draft Registration cards, and his death certificate at this point. We're still waiting for my GF (Natale's son's) birth certificate and Natale and my GGM's marriage license.

Thanks again!
I see, did you search birth records for the Comune your GGF was born in via familysearch.org? Having a scan of his birth certificate will give you the data you need to build on, factual DOB to supply USCIS, also to collect other documents. I also suggest (if you already haven't) to get the same info for your GGM. USCIS will go off of dates and names you provide, they will search and provide you with a list of what they believe is the person, census records they appeared on and etc.

Death Certificate inconsistences may not be a problem as my GGM's first name is her American version, is not the Italian version. ICA told me it wasn't an issue, not sure on the DOD, that would need to be further investigated or maybe someone else will chime in?

When I did my first USCIS inquiry, it was all done online, just entered in as much info as I knew, this was pre-Covid and of course I had little data on my GGF's correct birth date, so this is now void and I proceeded to request both him and my GGM back nearly 4-6 months ago with their actual DOB, it's the only two documents I'm waiting to provide ICA but they also requested them as well. They are also getting all certified long-form marriage certificates in the US, the ones ordered were not long-form, lesson learned.

You want to provide USCIS all versions of names you know, anything from Census records or family history. It helps with the search. I did not send any supporting documentation, so I don't know if that helps, seems on the 1st try, they were able to find plenty of info, but no Naturalization records and this was before Covid.

Yes the list of documents is long and need to be certified copies, you need every birth certificate from yourself back to the ancestor you are using. Marriage Certificates, some of which had to be requested from County Courthouses via snail mail and various phone calls, (again I'll note, make sure you get Long-Form Marriage Certificates, these are required), all Death Certificates and any Divorce documents, for anyone, including yourself.

Also in my case, there were some misspellings on birth certificates, since my Grandfather was deceased, I had to hire an attorney in PA to draft a petition to correct these at a small cost, the turnaround and approval with the court was less than one month.

If I was not able to find my GGP's original birth certificates online via familysearch.org, I'd would have had little to go on, though I am using ICA for the process after they told me I was a 1948 rule case, it made connecting the dots much easier. This being said with actually visiting both Comune's in Italy my family were from, in the fall of 2019 with a Translator, only to leave virtually empty handed after digging through books at one and finding the other one closed for renovations...I left Italy a little bummed I did not have the clues, but all of that is now cleared up, thankfully!
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by JonJCurtoJr »

afecad wrote: 01 Mar 2021, 02:43
JonJCurtoJr wrote: 28 Feb 2021, 21:52

Thanks afecad,

I did some further research and...
I see, did you search birth records for the Comune your GGF was born in via familysearch.org? I also suggest (if you already haven't) to get the same info for your GGM...

Death Certificate inconsistences may not be a problem as my GGM's first name is her American version, is not the Italian version. ICA told me it wasn't an issue, not sure on the DOD, that would need to be further investigated or maybe someone else will chime in?

Also in my case, there were some misspellings on birth certificates, since my Grandfather was deceased, I had to hire an attorney in PA to draft a petition to correct these at a small cost, the turnaround and approval with the court was less than one month.

If I was not able to find my GGP's original birth certificates online via familysearch.org, I'd would have had little to go on, though I am using ICA for the process after they told me I was a 1948 rule case, it made connecting the dots much easier.
Yea, we've tried finding the birth records online, but from everything we can gather, it looks like he was born in Acri in 1885 and they don't keep their records online. So, I plan on going to a Family History Center this week to see if I can find the registration so we can write in a request to the Municipal Government in Acri for a certified Apostille birth certificate for him. We were able to find my GGM's birth certificate from Rose, Cosenza in 1897, thankfully.

My sister is using ItalyMondo! and they seem to be just a record acquisition organization and I've been able to find more than they have, so I'm starting to question their value. Have you found ICA to be worth the money? If so, what package of theirs are you using?

We've almost got everything we need and just so happen to have a very close family friend who works as a lead official in the Italian Consulate in Miami, but we need to get him the documents so he can start the process on his end. My GGF's birth certificate is a major piece of this and is understandably proving difficult to find.

We are going to visit Calabria in 2023, but were really hoping to have all of this completed by then so we can start looking at property to purchase, etc. So, it's funny you mention your visit! Luckily my wife speaks Italian fluently and I am learning, so our transition shouldn't be too difficult once we get the citizenship process complete.

Thanks for all of the great information and recommendations. Please feel free to send over anything else you can recommend that you have learned from your experience, it is all invaluable!
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

JonJCurtoJr wrote: 01 Mar 2021, 15:49
Yea, we've tried finding the birth records online, but from everything we can gather, it looks like he was born in Acri in 1885 and they don't keep their records online. So, I plan on going to a Family History Center this week to see if I can find the registration so we can write in a request to the Municipal Government in Acri for a certified Apostille birth certificate for him. We were able to find my GGM's birth certificate from Rose, Cosenza in 1897, thankfully.

My sister is using ItalyMondo! and they seem to be just a record acquisition organization and I've been able to find more than they have, so I'm starting to question their value. Have you found ICA to be worth the money? If so, what package of theirs are you using?

We've almost got everything we need and just so happen to have a very close family friend who works as a lead official in the Italian Consulate in Miami, but we need to get him the documents so he can start the process on his end. My GGF's birth certificate is a major piece of this and is understandably proving difficult to find.

We are going to visit Calabria in 2023, but were really hoping to have all of this completed by then so we can start looking at property to purchase, etc. So, it's funny you mention your visit! Luckily my wife speaks Italian fluently and I am learning, so our transition shouldn't be too difficult once we get the citizenship process complete.

Thanks for all of the great information and recommendations. Please feel free to send over anything else you can recommend that you have learned from your experience, it is all invaluable!
We went with ICA’s top tier package, wasn’t cheap but with Covid, our plans changed and also the 1948 case further justified it. So far they have been great, no complaints at all. It took several months to retain them, in retrospect we wished we did it sooner but waited and they overloaded now and taking on new clients is delayed. ICA is a law firm essentially, but they have a large staff to sort out the known issues and really have streamlined the process.

Check with user PippoM on here to aid in your document search in Acri. I’m sure they can assist you as another user stated they had success.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by JonJCurtoJr »

afecad wrote: 02 Mar 2021, 05:38
JonJCurtoJr wrote: 01 Mar 2021, 15:49
Check with user PippoM on here to aid in your document search in Acri. I’m sure they can assist you as another user stated they had success.
Awesome! I'll reach out to PippoM today.

We were going to sit down and write the letter to the officials in Acri this weekend.

Thanks again!
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by cedrone »

You could also search the local county courthouse your GGF lived in for records of naturalization.
[/quote]

How should I proceed for such a request?
I looked at the website of a county court (Fayette, Pennsylvania), but I didn’t see a form or instructions for this purpose.
Are these info available for anyone (for genealogical research) or only for members of the family (descendants)?
Thank you.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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cedrone wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 11:27 You could also search the local county courthouse your GGF lived in for records of naturalization.
How should I proceed for such a request?
I looked at the website of a county court (Fayette, Pennsylvania), but I didn’t see a form or instructions for this purpose.
Are these info available for anyone (for genealogical research) or only for members of the family (descendants)?
Thank you.
[/quote]

Call the prothonotary's office. I have contacted 3 counties in PA and was informed to send a letter with as much identifying information as possible, accompanied by a money order for the designated fee.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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Thank you very much.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

Just an update, ICA notified me today that they received a certificate of no naturalization for my GGM from USCIS. This request came from ICA directly, and was only a few months ago. My initial request from months prior to this is still not filled, but I may get something soon.

Not sure if ICA has a backdoor connection, but they resolved this faster than I could on my own.

The letter was certified from USCIS stating all the names she used from her Italian birth to her death in the USA, including her married name, were searched with no record found.

That's one less hurdle for me in my 1948 case, but I know the County in PA she lived in also has to submit a "no record found" letter as well.

So those of you who are waiting for a response from USCIS may get some resolution shortly...
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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afecad wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 00:18 Just an update, ICA notified me today that they received a certificate of no naturalization for my GGM from USCIS. This request came from ICA directly, and was only a few months ago. My initial request from months prior to this is still not filled, but I may get something soon.

Not sure if ICA has a backdoor connection, but they resolved this faster than I could on my own.

The letter was certified from USCIS stating all the names she used from her Italian birth to her death in the USA, including her married name, were searched with no record found.

That's one less hurdle for me in my 1948 case, but I know the County in PA she lived in also has to submit a "no record found" letter as well.

So those of you who are waiting for a response from USCIS may get some resolution shortly...
ICA knows what it is doing.

If you are certain that your ancestor did not naturalize, do not submit a USCIS index search request. Send a request by mail to this address:

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
Attn: IMLS/Certification of Non-Existence/RM 5224
150 Space Center Loop
Lee’s Summit, MO 64064

I got a certificate of no naturalization for one GGF in about 1 month.

However, if the ancestor did naturalize then you have to go through the USCIS Genealogy Program, it's the only way to obtain the C-File number which can then be used to obtain a copy of the naturalization records.

I also sent a request to the above address for my other GGF who did naturalize, and all they did was send me a letter referring me to the USCIS genealogy program. They didn't provide me with the C-File number and they probably would refuse to do so.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by qualdom »

Here is a pretty informative guide for how to prove naturalization dates or lack thereof:

https://www.italiamerica.org/Proving%20 ... hereof.pdf

The only issue right now is obtaining records from NARA. They have ceased all reproduction efforts for the time being, so it's impossible to obtain certified copies of the Census and certificates of no naturalization. Hopefully they will reopen soon.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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qualdom wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 14:56

ICA knows what it is doing.

Yes, that's why I retained them.

YSK My GGF is not yet ruled out, reason being we don't know if he naturalized or not. Census forms flagged that he was prior to the birth of my GF, reason I had to request USCIS. I received the first request prior to the pandemic in less than a month, but had his birth date wrong and had to resubmit. Records from Northumberland County have not yet been located on whether or not he naturalized, a letter from them stating no record found is still outstanding.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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afecad wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 17:58 YSK My GGF is not yet ruled out, reason being we don't know if he naturalized or not. Census forms flagged that he was prior to the birth of my GF, reason I had to request USCIS. I received the first request prior to the pandemic in less than a month, but had his birth date wrong and had to resubmit. Records from Northumberland County have not yet been located on whether or not he naturalized, a letter from them stating no record found is still outstanding.
I don't know what to do about Northumberland County. I have called the 3x and every time the prothonotary tells me that she is going to search their naturalization records "next week". I sent the initial request nearly 4 months ago, still no letter from them.
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