Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
afecad
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

qualdom wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 19:09

I don't know what to do about Northumberland County. I have called the 3x and every time the prothonotary tells me that she is going to search their naturalization records "next week". I sent the initial request nearly 4 months ago, still no letter from them.
I requested documents and they arrived but they sent the wrong ones and ICA had to contact them and request the correct type, which arrived a few weeks later. If money is involved, the turn around is quite fast otherwise free records are low on the priority. I was planning on being there in person to do everything, but have not been back in 2 years now due to the pandemic. I have family in the area, but it's not pressing enough to have them go in and try to take care of it in person right now.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by bmorocco »

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Pe ... _GenealogyHi,
Just to chime in as I am in the same situation. GGF Guiseppe Tolone, from Artena (born Talone)... He filed a Naturalization petition in 1924, but then never followed through it seems.
Also still listed as ALIEN in 1940 in Census and on a WWII Draft registration.
Hoping this holds up. I CANNOT find the record for him on any ship Manifests, including the one he names. But it sounds like that may not be necessary for UCSIS. Thanks.

I am also using ICA. They are going to submit UCSIS request with all aliases (Calone/Falone/Tolonie, etc). Birth record show his full name was actually Andrea Guiseppe!

For the records from COUNTY - I was able to get help from calling clerk of my home county in PA (Mercer). But that was an email to myself and ICA saying nothing found.

But for OHIO county I was also able to find both the Naturalization request and Marriage license through visiting Family Search library... And I found it under name "CALONE" - This way I had the info beforehand, so ICA could press on the COUNTY to dig them up.

I haven't dug into the PA county records online... but the link above is the equivalent starting page for PA for which I found OH records. Drilled down to County and then found INDEXES per year... Then checked on all the spellings I knew.
Hope it works out for you!
Bill Morocco

Names in my family I'm working on: Muraca, Moraca, Santelli, Tolone, Patituccio, Castelucci, Grandinetti
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

FWIW, you really have to push the PA courthouse that has the documents and the pandemic has not made the process any easier.

ICA has received all documents as of this date, aside from the requests made to Northumberland County PA with respect to naturalization, no record found or etc.

I have found getting names on birth certificates corrected with PA Vital Records to be easier than the county courthouse.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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afecad wrote: 07 Nov 2021, 19:15 FWIW, you really have to push the PA courthouse that has the documents and the pandemic has not made the process any easier.
I can attest to that. After 7 months of waiting, I started calling the prothonotary's office every day. The staff started to get hostile but they finally mailed the certified copy of the naturalization record a few weeks later.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

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qualdom wrote: 08 Nov 2021, 14:54
afecad wrote: 07 Nov 2021, 19:15 FWIW, you really have to push the PA courthouse that has the documents and the pandemic has not made the process any easier.
I can attest to that. After 7 months of waiting, I started calling the prothonotary's office every day. The staff started to get hostile but they finally mailed the certified copy of the naturalization record a few weeks later.
That's great, glad you got the record finally. ICA is handling all correspondence, though I stated to them I have family nearby to request in person should they continue to reach an impasse but they don't seem too concerned.

As of this writing, we still cannot confirm my GGF even naturalized, but they are still proceeding with a 1948 case. Aside from this and a couple of other documents, everything is proceeding as planned.
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by qualdom »

afecad wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 02:39 That's great, glad you got the record finally. ICA is handling all correspondence, though I stated to them I have family nearby to request in person should they continue to reach an impasse but they don't seem too concerned.

As of this writing, we still cannot confirm my GGF even naturalized, but they are still proceeding with a 1948 case. Aside from this and a couple of other documents, everything is proceeding as planned.
I don't know if ICA mentioned this to you, but one Italian lawyer told me that the courts aren't as strict as they used to be about petitioners proving that their paternal line naturalized and therefore are ineligible to apply via the consulate. Actually someone posted on the Luigi Paiano thread here that, years ago, the judge for his 1948 case actually called a 3rd hearing because his grandfather had a common Italian name and the judge wanted to be absolutely sure that it was his grandfather who naturalized (just to make sure a consulate case was impossible).

This lawyer told me that now, in the name of gender equality, you can claim that you prefer to apply through your maternal line because you are more connected to that side of the family (or something to that nature).
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Re: Proof of Non-Naturalization for Dual Italian-US Citizenship

Post by afecad »

qualdom wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 14:14
I don't know if ICA mentioned this to you, but one Italian lawyer told me that the courts aren't as strict as they used to be about petitioners proving that their paternal line naturalized and therefore are ineligible to apply via the consulate. Actually someone posted on the Luigi Paiano thread here that, years ago, the judge for his 1948 case actually called a 3rd hearing because his grandfather had a common Italian name and the judge wanted to be absolutely sure that it was his grandfather who naturalized (just to make sure a consulate case was impossible).

This lawyer told me that now, in the name of gender equality, you can claim that you prefer to apply through your maternal line because you are more connected to that side of the family (or something to that nature).
I don't recall ICA noting this, but it appears they are collecting everything to back up the case whichever way it goes. Delay's still persist,still waiting to receive corrected birth certificate(s) from PA Vital Records. I was told sometime before the end of the year but I suspect this will roll into 2022. If all goes as planned, I think ICA will present my case sometime next year to the courts in Rome. PA Vital Records, though responsive and were easy to reach on the phone, have been the biggest bottleneck in the process. Simple first name misspelling correction for my Grandfather, turned everything upside down. Names on all documents had to match, from myself to both of my GGPs. Looks like I won't need anymore court orders though.
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