Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Woodstock496
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Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by Woodstock496 » 11 Apr 2019, 06:23

Hello all. I am fairly certain I am eligible to have my Italian citizenship recognized but I have a slightly uncommon case.

My great grandfather was born in the US to two non-naturalized Italian parents in 1902. He moved back to Italy in 1906 at 4 years of age. He was registered in his comune as a child and grew up and got married there to an Italian citizen.

My grandfather was then born in 1924. At this particular time, US citizenship law gave automatic jure sanguinis citizenship to children of US fathers with no clearly defined previous US residency requirement. This is confirmed as I have my grandfather's certificate of citizenship issued in 1963 confirming he was born a US citizen, as well as his childhood US passport for his 1-way travel to the US when he was 9 years old. I also have a historical certificate of citizenship proving he was an Italian citizen.

My mother was born in 1955. So the only question is will a consulate accept my grandfather was born a dual citizen and thus never naturalized and renounced. Is a Certificate of Citizenship enough to do this or do I need more?

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mler
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Re: Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by mler » 20 Apr 2019, 20:57

They certainly should accept his US citizenship especially since you have proof with his US passport. You would then have to demonstrate that he was also an Italian citizen, which would mean a trace back to your gggf.

It seems you should qualify but, as you note, this is an unusual case, and unusual cases tend to be more problematic for the consulates.

There is, however, nothing I can see that would disqualify you.

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Re: Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by Woodstock496 » 16 May 2019, 06:43

Thanks for the reply, I have since obtained a historical certificate of citizenship from his comune stating all records they have (until his date of emigration) indicate he was an italian citizen and there are no annotations saying he ever lost or renounced it. So I imagine it should be, in combination with his US certificate of citizenship, accepted as proof of him being born a true dual citizen and thus never doing anything to trigger loss (maybe in 1963 he needed to sign an oath to obtain the Cert. of US citizenship, but that would still mean he was a citizen until 1963).

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Re: Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by mler » 16 May 2019, 14:03

The only problem I see is that your gf obtained his citizenship jure sanguinis, not jus soli. I don’t know how this affects your eligibility, but since his father never naturalized, it may be ok. The Certificate of Citizenship may raise questions at the consulate because it is further evidence that he did not have US citizenship jus soli.

Check the Tapatalk Italian genealogy site. I think there was a recent case similar to yours but the dates were different.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/

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Re: Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by EddyB » 17 May 2019, 22:55

mler wrote:
16 May 2019, 14:03
The only problem I see is that your gf obtained his citizenship jure sanguinis, not jus soli. I don’t know how this affects your eligibility, but since his father never naturalized, it may be ok. The Certificate of Citizenship may raise questions at the consulate because it is further evidence that he did not have US citizenship jus soli.

Check the Tapatalk Italian genealogy site. I think there was a recent case similar to yours but the dates were different.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/
For what it's worth, I have a somewhat similar situation, but it's a 1948 case, so I have talked to a lawyer. At least for a court case, it doesn't seem like it is expected to be a problem---showing the evidence of US citizenship of the father (GGF) at the time of the child's birth (GF) seems to be relatively well understood, and I'd expect the consulates to be familiar with it. Woodstock496, do you have the GGF's US birth certificate? Did you happen to find out whether GGF recorded GF's birth with the US embassy? (I had zero luck tracking that down in my case.)

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Re: Eligibility: Being Born a Dual IT-US Citizen via Derivative US Citizenship

Post by Woodstock496 » 12 Jun 2019, 04:46

Update on this: case

My great grandfather was born in the United States in 1902. His parents were born in Italy in the 1870s, and moved to the US in 1895. They may have naturalized before he was born (which would have made him ONLY a US citizen by birth). However, they all moved back to Italy from 1908 through the early 1920s, thus I believe the 1912 law took affect and my great great grandparents re-acquired Italian citizenship and my great grandfather either re-acquired or acquired depending on his status.

I do believe it will be good, if not necessary, for me to have proof back to my GGGF for this particular case, even though I am technically applying through my Grandfather.

I am in the process of getting fully transcribed birth records of my GGF and GGGF from the comune now...

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