Chromosome painting anomalies

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
darkerhorse
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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Can you find persons who match on those chromosomes to identify their backgrounds?

Have you tried asking these questions in a Scandinavian forum? Finding others with Danish background and olive skin.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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darkerhorse wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 17:12 Can you find persons who match on those chromosomes to identify their backgrounds?

Have you tried asking these questions in a Scandinavian forum? Finding others with Danish background and olive skin.
As far as DNA matches, they ONLY list the chromosomes as a MATCHED pair and not separately, like these. And I'm not certain that would help. If someone matched on the 15th chromosome (which is Italian for both), say, unless it was a high percentage of cM, it may not show up in their ancestry at all, especially if they match on other chromosomes as well (which is common) or if they are further distant from my father (which they would be).

As for the Scandinavian forums, I have not, but no significant Scandinavian in his tree, either. And furthermore that doesn't explain the Italian found in his genetic makeup...
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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So I experimented, using my "My Heritage" matrix. I finally found ONE match that shared a decent amount of cM on chromosome 15 (the double Italian one).

Although her last name matches a German one on my father's tree, her ethnic makeup is 5.5% ITALIAN.

Perhaps I should concentrate on THAT line (despite it being Germanic) to find the missing Italian on my father's side.

BTW, she is NOT an X-match so she is NOT related to my mother.

Draw your own conclusions...
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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This might just seal the deal. It took awhile, but I found another DNA relative that matches on the "double Italian" C15. Not only is she 13.1% Italian, but she also shares some cM with my 1st cousin once removed on my father's side (my dad's youngest brother's granddaughter) on that same chromosome. It's just too much of a coincidence...
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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And I think I FINALLY found the missing link.

My paternal great grandmother's family tree (researched by other family members) was UTTERLY incorrect (deep down I was suspicious, as names/dates/locations were close, but never completely lined up). So I delved deeper, and after many dead ends I found her father through US census records. Her surname was Morris. I found a Frank Morris on one census report with a daughter the right age, with the right name, and in the right location.

Okay -- so I continue to seek info on him. I find his wife's name, and her line is 100% German. Back to him. Found another census with the right family -- THIS time the surname is "Mores". I do more research and find that that is MOST LIKELY the correct spelling, and at some point it was changed by him (or just out of ignorance) to 'Morris'.

Okay, so now to do some research on the MORES surname. To my shock (not really), it is common in Udine and Fruili-Giulia, in, you guessed it, ITALY. Looking at my GG's photo (not the greatest), she does seem to look slightly olive (her husband was Scots-Irish and looks much lighter in the same photo, which was cropped).

For all I know, she knew nothing of her heritage, or perhaps for some reason it was hidden in fear of persecution or ridicule. But it DOES at least explain (to some extent) the Italian that I'm finding in my father's genes. I had no idea...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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Can you post the census records?
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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darkerhorse wrote: 03 Apr 2021, 12:29 Can you post the census records?
It is the 1880 census (he was born about 1842). They lived in NW PA. It shows parents from NY (I'm still looking for them, nor am I sure if those birthplaces are accurate). Don't know if you can read it or not. The daughter listed as "Annie" (she went by 'Anna' later in life) is my GGm.

Here is the uncropped family photo. GGm bottom center, my GM (dad's mother) at lower right. GGf at top center (head cocked). The son with the dark hair (all the others were blond or ginger) I have ben told by some people that I resemble. If my genetics is correct, all these kids would have been 1/4 Italian. Even if 1/8 (my GGm at 25% instead of 50%), I can still see random replication giving me the results I have found.

Most of the matrices (about a half-dozen in all) agree that my ethnic makeup in total is around 52-60% Italian (this does not take into account the traces of 'other' Mediterranean on my mom's side).

Just like with my mother's family, the Italian relatives are nearly impossible to find documentation on. My GGm's mother, who was German/Alsatian, has a tree going back to the 1500's (which I found nearly instantly once I learned her name). For her dad, nothing yet (I'm still looking). But it's a strong clue...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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When did your Frank Morris die?
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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Wasn't the Sarah Hamscher Morris who had German parents married to John Morris, not Frank Morris?
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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darkerhorse wrote: 03 Apr 2021, 21:10 Wasn't the Sarah Hamscher Morris who had German parents married to John Morris, not Frank Morris?
The names are similar, but not a match. I have several DNA matches to the Reichard's (her mother was Sarah Anna Reichard) . No Hamscher matches.

I read an article from the Library of Congress on early Italian immigration. Began before the 1800's, but trickled in mainly starting around 1800, and most of the early immigrants were artists and artisans from northern Italy. In both this and the 1900 census, his occupation is listed as "molder" (sounds like an artisan-type occupation to me). His date of birth (1842) and possible birthplaces of parents as NY still gives plenty of time for him to have been 2nd gen in the US, but still full Italian heritage.

The 1900 census puts the family residence at Sharon, PA. My GGm had already married (1896) and left home by then, but her daughter (my father's mother) was also born in Sharon (in 1900).

I've researched the "Morris" route and can find no legitimate matches nor do I have any DNA relatives going back to them...
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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I also noticed the one daughter's spelling as "Gennie" (not the more common "Jenny" for Jennifer, which wasn't a popular girl's name until after 1900). My Great-Aunt on my mom's side was named "Gentilina". Hmmmm...

Also note the last daughter as "Gera, Gela or Gesa". She apparently did not reach adulthood (or moved out young) as she is missing in 1900, replaced by "Pearl" who was born in 1884...
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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It sure looks like his name was Morris not Mores.

Is there any document that references Italian heritage for Frank or his direct ancestors - like a birth, immigration, census, military, or death record?
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Re: Chromosome painting anomalies

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I'm still searching for that info. Nothing as yet. However, TWO huge factors MUST be considered here:

1. There is ABSOLUTELY Italian DNA on my father's side (proven through MY DNA as well as DNA matches)

2. I have ABSOLUTELY NO DNA matches to ANY Morris. PERIOD. I DO have DNA matches to someone in EVERY other branch of my father's tree (including Frank's wife).

As an aside, Mores pronounced in it's Latin form would sound like Morris.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Italian DNA did NOT come from thin air.
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