Time Frame

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
darkerhorse
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Time Frame

Post by darkerhorse »

Starting with my grandparents, all direct ancestors on my paternal side were born in Sicily (almost all in the same town) for six generations, back to the 1700s, when the paper trail ends. My father is generation seven and I'm generation eight.

If I took a DNA test for ethnic breakdowns, how many generations back (or how many years back) would the results reflect?

For example, if I had some North African ancestry how recent does the direct ancestor have to be in order for it to be captured by DNA?

If I had a full-blooded North African ancestor, say, 10 generations back from me would it show up in my DNA?

Would the results reflect my ancestry any further back than the paper trail?
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Re: Time Frame

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My understanding is it's a crapshoot. Since the DNA you inherit (50%) from each parent is randomly distributed, you can see how through the generations some DNA would "die off" (not be replicated). I have heard where one grandparent's DNA can be totally 'skipped' in a generation (but a sibling might get it). I don't think there is a truly "correct" answer that would make any logical sense...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Time Frame

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I should have the same Y haplogroup as my paternal cousin, and his suggests ancient origins in the British Isles, especially Scotland. That's too far back for my purposes.

I'm more interested in confirming the paper trail, and then back filling from there.
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Re: Time Frame

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In my case, since the paper trail is all Sicilian born (almost all in one town), I wonder how my DNA would carry anything else but Sicilian on the paternal side.
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Re: Time Frame

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Wouldn't I be expected to inherit only 1/512 of my DNA from any one direct ancestor back eight generations?

Even if one of them was a full-blooded North African wouldn't it likely be undetectable by now in my DNA?

What I'm saying is that, assuming the paper trail is correct, there's no full-blooded non-Sicilian going back at least seven generations.
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Re: Time Frame

Post by darkerhorse »

Genetics is so complicated, I probably should go back to the guy looking for his grandfather's pension in the other board.
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Re: Time Frame

Post by MarcuccioV »

Sicily is a slippery slope since it is a melting pot of so many different ethnicities. There's really no such thing as a true "Sicilian". I'd be willing to wager that theoretically, if everyone in that town were tested, no two would have identical ancestral percentages, and more likely they would be vastly varied due to random replication of even the same backgrounds.

It is very possible that a particular portion of DNA is "stronger" & therefore would continually replicate while "weaker" portions do not. Again, I don't think there is a "pat" answer...
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Re: Time Frame

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I understand your point about the melting pot, but you could argue that a direct family line born, married, and buried in Sicily over so many generations, traced back 300+ years, is "Sicilian", whatever their ethnic mix is or ancient origins were. Otherwise, what is "Sicilian", if not long-term residents of Sicily?
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Re: Time Frame

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darkerhorse wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 01:48 I understand your point about the melting pot, but you could argue that a direct family line born, married, and buried in Sicily over so many generations, traced back 300+ years, is "Sicilian", whatever their ethnic mix is or ancient origins were. Otherwise, what is "Sicilian", if not long-term residents of Sicily?
Point taken (I also have "Sicilian", which was unbeknownst to me -- as well as some of my ancestors most likely) until now. So I get it. But ancestry and ethnicity are not quite the same.

All my relatives were also from the same town (in Lazio, near Rome) for as far back as I can research as well -- yet I have ethnicities from much farther south in Italy, Sicily, as well as Greece and even further east. Don't put too much stock in "the same town" aspect. That one blew up in my face big-time. :oops:
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Re: Time Frame

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darkerhorse wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 01:18 Starting with my grandparents, all direct ancestors on my paternal side were born in Sicily (almost all in the same town) for six generations, back to the 1700s, when the paper trail ends. My father is generation seven and I'm generation eight.

If I took a DNA test for ethnic breakdowns, how many generations back (or how many years back) would the results reflect?

For example, if I had some North African ancestry how recent does the direct ancestor have to be in order for it to be captured by DNA?

If I had a full-blooded North African ancestor, say, 10 generations back from me would it show up in my DNA?

Would the results reflect my ancestry any further back than the paper trail?

As previously mentioned to you, 23andme or FTDNA would be your best bet. FTDNA Y-DNA Testing comes in many flavours so keep that in mind, the more markers the better accuracy.

23andme say's "In the last 200 years, your ancestors may have lived in the following locations" , so for Italy it would say such.

For the below, there is no time stamp on prediction in years.

Yes, you will likely see Western Asian & North Africa, this is what mine shows (from 23andme)
23andme.PNG
This is my Mother's composition from 23andme:
23andmem.PNG
This varies DNA company to DNA company though, some show other regions of Africa and Middle East.

Odds are ancestors from North Africa were from the invasion of the Moors in Sicily & Calabria, over 1200 years ago.
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darkerhorse
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Re: Time Frame

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23andme say's "In the last 200 years, your ancestors may have lived in the following locations" , so for Italy it would say such.

That's the kind of information I'm looking for. It wouldn't extend the paper trail but at least it would confirm it.

I'd want to see "Sicilian" listed specifically or it wouldn't have much value for me.
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Re: Time Frame

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darkerhorse wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 04:16
I'd want to see "Sicilian" listed specifically or it wouldn't have much value for me.
Well if you are sure about the Sicilian connection, 23andme would show it as a match. I knew my family came from Calabria and it was spot on accurate. Like mine, it may likely show other regions in the north and south as well.
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Re: Time Frame

Post by darkerhorse »

I'd want a percentage reported.
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Re: Time Frame

Post by MarcuccioV »

AncestryItalian.jpg
This is what my 23&Me report looks like. It shows 52.7% Italian, then breaks it up by region, using maps & shading. Since this gives info back approx 200 years, that would cover your time frame.

My ancestors were all from the same town in Lazio, with documentation dating back to 1871. Based on this info, I'd have to guess the migrations into that town from these other regions occurred within 100 years prior to that. Possibly further back as the shading gets lighter (ie: multiple migrations, say from Sicily to Campania to Lazio or Puglia to Campania to Abruzzo to Lazio). It at least gives an idea of where my ancestors originated.

BTW, all matrices from the various sites generally agree on my ethnic breakdown. This just gives the most detail...
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Re: Time Frame

Post by afecad »

darkerhorse wrote: 01 Apr 2021, 13:29 I'd want a percentage reported.
Doesn't work that way
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