Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
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MarcuccioV
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 18:06 Tom Jones is another example.
One thing I may have forgotten to mention is that it was always taken for granted that my GGm (Frank's daughter) was of native American heritage. At least that was the family lore. Turns out no one shows even a trace of native ancestry. NOBODY.

Where that story started I do not know. But even my living Uncle agrees that he was told that. My father used to explain his skin tone that way, even though it wasn't red (like native or in some cases, related Nordic), but olive.

Frank was right in the middle of the quadruplet of children 1 year apart.

I truly believe the possibility exists that Frank was a foundling, orphan or otherwise adoptee whose heritage may not have been known, but his coloring may have given rise to the mistaken identity as NA.

That might explain why Med shows up rather than Native.

It's another theory to heap onto the pile, at least...
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darkerhorse
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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If skin complexion is truly a continuum then mixture with Native American could produce olive skin I suppose.

My French-Canadian family also has the lore of Native American ancestry with no paper trail or DNA testing to back it up.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 21:19 If skin complexion is truly a continuum then mixture with Native American could produce olive skin I suppose.

My French-Canadian family also has the lore of Native American ancestry with no paper trail or DNA testing to back it up.
Same here. I have to assume it was skin tone related. I'm not sure how else the story unfolded. It would make sense that someone wasn't aware of their true ethnicity, so I have to guess that was Frank...
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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[/quote]

Same here. I have to assume it was skin tone related. I'm not sure how else the story unfolded. It would make sense that someone wasn't aware of their true ethnicity, so I have to guess that was Frank...
[/quote]

Do you have any documents or photos for this Frank?
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 23:40
Do you have any documents or photos for this Frank?
US census only. No BC or birth info available online. Have a friend in the area that was going to check the county records but I haven't gotten that far yet. I don't think birth documentation was required at the time...

No photos.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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I also continue to get DNA matches on both Ancestry & MyHeritage that match both me and my paternal first cousins and that show approximately 5% Italian ethnicity. I have literally dozens of them...

I just can't accept that as merely coincidence.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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Lots of people have a trace of Italian ancestry. Can you tell from the DNA if the Italian is from ancestors you have in common? Couldn't it be from spouses to whom you aren't related by blood?
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 14:45 Lots of people have a trace of Italian ancestry. Can you tell from the DNA if the Italian is from ancestors you have in common? Couldn't it be from spouses to whom you aren't related by blood?
I'd have to research each and every one, which I don't have the time for at the moment. Of those that I have, there isn't a distinct Italian line that can be traced.

A few, I could agree with your opinion. same with if I could find a relative on either side that would confirm the ethnic basis. Again, on those I have checked, I think I found that only once. we're talking about a lot more than a few.

Also the percentages fall well within the generational period that fit the scenario. Let's just say it will take a lot more evidence to convince me of coincidence. And even then, maybe not.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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I think I've asked before, but do your matches have any other ethnicity in common which you don't have a paper trail for on your paternal side? Italian stands out, in part, because your looking for it.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 17:58 I think I've asked before, but do your matches have any other ethnicity in common which you don't have a paper trail for on your paternal side? Italian stands out, in part, because your looking for it.
Not really -- at least not to anywhere near as much of an extent. Of the many with Italian ethnicity, they mainly have only the documented ethnicities I'd expect. I get what you mean, but other ethnicities are simply not showing up with anything close to nearly the same frequency. The strongest undocumented ethnicity is Italian. It just is.

Even if some matches show Italian several gens back (this is a general statement as I have not gone deep into these matches yet), since I have no Italian surnames to use for reference, it won't help me pinpoint an ancestor without extensive research into the families of all these matches to see if any commonality exists.

This is why genealogists make the big bucks and the rest of us do it basically as a hobby...
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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Do you believe your paternal uncles have the same biological parents as your father?
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 02:45 Do you believe your paternal uncles have the same biological parents as your father?
Yes. DNA matches prove that (not that I had any doubt before)...
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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That means they share the same ancestry lines. So any surprises would apply to all of them. From what you've posted you can rule out the line that follows your surname.
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

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darkerhorse wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 19:36 That means they share the same ancestry lines. So any surprises would apply to all of them. From what you've posted you can rule out the line that follows your surname.
Yes. I can rule out a few other lines as well...
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Re: Haplogroup non-matches -- both Y-DNA and mtDNA

Post by darkerhorse »

I found a picture of Frank Morris online, and the year and place of birth fit.

I wonder if this is your Frank Morris?
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