MT Eve

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
Post Reply
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

Is it current thinking that everyone alive today descends from the so-called Mitochondrial Eve?

Didn't she live in Africa, and wouldn't she have been black?

If so, then how did the other races arise?
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

As a follow-up, is there a Mitochondrial Maria, serving as the mother of the Italian "race"?
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 04:22 Is it current thinking that everyone alive today descends from the so-called Mitochondrial Eve?

Didn't she live in Africa, and wouldn't she have been black?

If so, then how did the other races arise?
I'm in process of mtDNA testing now. Considering the amount of time humans have been around, climates have changed (ice ages, etc). There are so many haplotypes because as groups migrated, they most likely adapted to their current surroundings as the DNA mutated, resulting in lighter skin tones as migration worked it way into less sunny or more wintry climes. mt Eve may have been darker complected, but not necessarily what we would consider as "black".

I know of no mt "Maria". The Italian peninsula was always a melting pot of many cultures that used it as a route from south and east into mainland Europe and vice-versa. The Roman Empire muddied this even more in recent times. And then there is Sardinia, which is ethnically dissimilar to mainland Italy, and Sicily, which leans heavily on other Med cultures for it's ethnicity.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say Italy is probably the most ethnically diverse (in an ancient sense) land than any other part of mainland Europe...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
joetucciarone
Elite
Elite
Posts: 389
Joined: 03 Jun 2012, 22:28
Location: Cocoa, Florida

Re: MT Eve

Post by joetucciarone »

Darkerhorse - you're right; the currently accepted theory is that everyone alive today is descended from "Mitochondrial Eve," our most recent common ancestor, who lived in Africa about 100,000 to 200,000 years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... -ancestor/

I recently watched a TV documentary called "The Evolution of Us," made in 2016. It suggested that black skin protected humans in Africa from the sun's ultraviolet radiation. As Mark noted, when these early humans migrated out of Africa into northern, cloudier regions, lighter skin evolved to take advantage of the lesser sunlight they encountered.
User avatar
joetucciarone
Elite
Elite
Posts: 389
Joined: 03 Jun 2012, 22:28
Location: Cocoa, Florida

Re: MT Eve

Post by joetucciarone »

If you like researching ancient DNA, the GEDmatch site allows you to compare your DNA to that of ancient individuals who lived thousands of years ago. First, you upload your DNA to the GEDmatch site, and after it's been incorporated into their database, you're assigned a kit number. Then, you use their "GEDmatch Archaic Matches" tool to see if you share DNA with ancient individuals, one of whom is Otzi, the famous "Iceman." Their database even includes the DNA of several Neanderthals. Using the GEDmatch tool, my wife and I discovered we share DNA with an individual who lived 13,700 years BP ("before the present") at the Bichon, Switzerland site. For almost 400 years, my wife's ancestors were solely English and Scottish, while for the same period all of my forebears were solely Italian, yet we're Paleolithic cousins! The following article tells a little about Bichon and other similar finds:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms9912
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

joetucciarone wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 17:37 If you like researching ancient DNA, the GEDmatch site allows you to compare your DNA to that of ancient individuals who lived thousands of years ago. First, you upload your DNA to the GEDmatch site, and after it's been incorporated into their database, you're assigned a kit number. Then, you use their "GEDmatch Archaic Matches" tool to see if you share DNA with ancient individuals, one of whom is Otzi, the famous "Iceman." Their database even includes the DNA of several Neanderthals. Using the GEDmatch tool, my wife and I discovered we share DNA with an individual who lived 13,700 years BP ("before the present") at the Bichon, Switzerland site. For almost 400 years, my wife's ancestors were solely English and Scottish, while for the same period all of my forebears were solely Italian, yet we're Paleolithic cousins! The following article tells a little about Bichon and other similar finds:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms9912
That would be interesting but I haven't had a DNA test. All I know is the Y haplogroup because male paternal cousins have been tested. It apparently has been traced back to Scotland. How it got to Sicily is a mystery.
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 00:27
That would be interesting but I haven't had a DNA test. All I know is the Y haplogroup because male paternal cousins have been tested. It apparently has been traced back to Scotland. How it got to Sicily is a mystery.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd have to say it was likely through a seaman that simply remained in Sicily. Since the Scottish was likely too many gens back to come up in ethnic origins (and it may have simply 'died out' due to random replication), the Y-DNA remained from male-to-male in the subsequent gens...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
joetucciarone
Elite
Elite
Posts: 389
Joined: 03 Jun 2012, 22:28
Location: Cocoa, Florida

Re: MT Eve

Post by joetucciarone »

Does any evidence show how long ago the Scottish DNA arrived in Sicily? If it happened within the last 1,000 years or so, I can think of two large-scale movements of DNA from Great Britain to the Mediterranean Sea.

During the period of the Crusades (from 1095 to 1291), Northern Europeans, including the English, went to the Holy Land in an attempt to drive out the Muslims. It's been documented that many of them passed through Italy on their way to and from the battlefields. Maybe some of the English mercenaries were of Scottish descent, and maybe some of them interacted with Sicilian women.

The other mass-movement of DNA was the invasion of Sicily by the Normans during the period from 999 to 1139. The Normans, who were based in what is now France around the year 1,000, were descended from the Vikings. And, there's the well-known conquest of England by the Normans in 1066. If the Vikings and/or the Normans had relations with English women, some of whom were descended from the Scottish, it's possible Scottish DNA could have been carried to Sicily by Norman invaders.
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

I have no evidence of Scottish DNA reaching Sicily.
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

Received my FTDNA mtDNA results. U3b2.

I only have 4 mtDNA matches in their entire database of those who have tested for mtDNA. 3 of those are Italian, 1 is Germanic.

Interestingly, the only one of those matches that listed an earliest known ancestor turned out that ancestor was from Agrigento. This is my grandmother's side -- I had my doubts that she held any Sicilian but the evidence indicates otherwise...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

Is U3b2 a maternal haplogoup? If yes, how is it passed down?
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 19:48 Is U3b2 a maternal haplogoup? If yes, how is it passed down?
YES. Through the female line ONLY. Ie: mother, grandmother, GGm, 2GGm, etc etc.

Males get it but CANNOT pass it on (males can only pass on their Y-DNA).

Also of the other 2 mtDNA matches that did NOT list an earlier ancestor, both of their surnames are the most prevalent in Sicily according to the Italian surname map site...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1510
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: MT Eve

Post by darkerhorse »

I forgot that maternal haplo groups also can be identified for males. In my case, it's not a line of much interest.

There is a direct ancestor who is thought to have been American Indian. Her daughter's daughter's daughter is still alive. So, she would carry the same maternal haplo group as the suspected Indian?

I assume an "Indian" haplo group would be readily identified.
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 27 Jul 2021, 21:39 I forgot that maternal haplo groups also can be identified for males. In my case, it's not a line of much interest.

There is a direct ancestor who is thought to have been American Indian. Her daughter's daughter's daughter is still alive. So, she would carry the same maternal haplo group as the suspected Indian?

I assume an "Indian" haplo group would be readily identified.
It should most likely be identifiable, I would think. It most likely would have come across Russia (or Mongolia) and over the Bering Strait...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 840
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: MT Eve

Post by MarcuccioV »

BTW, U3b2 is primarily Sicilian (it's also found in Hungary, Turkey & the Levant). So the one German match most likely has either a Hungarian or Sicilian in the maternal woodpile...

It also likely has ancient origins with the Romani of northern Asia (India)...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
Post Reply