Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Genetic genealogy is the application of genetics to traditional genealogy. Genetic genealogy involves the use of genealogical DNA testing to determine the level and type of the genetic relationship between individuals.
darkerhorse
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Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

23&Me reports the Y-DNA haplogroup as R-M269I, while Family Tree reports it as R-L1066.1.

Can you explain what a Y-DNA haplogroup is, and what it reveals about ancestry?

Also, why the reporting difference? I think someone said one code is more "downstream" than the other.
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 01:00 23&Me reports the Y-DNA haplogroup as R-M269I, while Family Tree reports it as R-L1066.1.

Can you explain what a Y-DNA haplogroup is, and what it reveals about ancestry?

Also, why the reporting difference? I think someone said one code is more "downstream" than the other.
R-L1066 is considerably downstream from RM-269. It's comparable to RM269 being R-L1066's 6 or 7GG.

It most likely has to do do with how many SNP's were tested (the more tested, the more precise the result).

Here's the Y-full list for RM-269 (see link). If you search online for R-L1066, it will give you a 'parent' haplotype -- if you keep clicking on the 'parent' type, about 6 or 7 clicks later you will reach RM-269...

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M269/
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

Actually it was further downstream than I thought -- going forward from "parent"-"descendant" haplotype:
R-M269, R-L23, R-L51, R-P310, R-L151, R-P312, R-Z290, R-L121, R-DF13, R-ZZ10_1, R-Z253, R-Z2534, R-ZZ5_1, R-Z2185, R-BY44331, R-Z2186, R-L1066...

Each code change indicates an SNP mutation along the line...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

Looking further into my own Y-line, my R-Z19 group descends from R-U106 which is another descendant of R-L151 (yours continues at that level as R-P312).

So my R-Z19 classification is equal to your R-Z290. Both come from R-M269. The R-L1066 classification is just more precise (as I noted, more SNP's tested)...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

Is it like one saying the Red Sox play home games in Massachusetts and the other one saying the Red Sox play home games in Boston?

They are both accurate but the latter is more precise?

One example you cited referred to parents and generations. Does downstream suggest any difference in time frame or recency?
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

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I assume fewer men will have the more precise haplogroupss, so does using the downstream haplogroup narrow down geographical origins?

How far back does a Y haplogroup take us - BC?
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 04:09 Is it like one saying the Red Sox play home games in Massachusetts and the other one saying the Red Sox play home games in Boston?

They are both accurate but the latter is more precise?

One example you cited referred to parents and generations. Does downstream suggest any difference in time frame or recency?
Your baseball comparison is crude, but correct. Downstream does indicate recency, but that varies by haplotype. Y-DNA mutates more rapidly than mtDNA. My R-Z19 haplotype goes back about 4600 YBP. What the latest mutation dates back to I don't know. Possibly only a couple or few hundred years...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 04:16 I assume fewer men will have the more precise haplogroupss, so does using the downstream haplogroup narrow down geographical origins?

How far back does a Y haplogroup take us - BC?
Far beyond BC. If you look at the Y-full chart I posted the link for, you'll see various mutations have different ethnic origins.

My R-Z19 classification has well over a dozen ethnic origins (including Italian/Sardinian & Italian/Verona just as an example). I can't narrow it down any more without the full Y-700 (700 SNP's tested) test, but it's prohibitively expensive...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

I found this project online.

If this was your Y haplogroup, and your paternal paper trail was all from Sicily back to the 1700s, would you accept that your surname line has ancient origins in Scotland (or at least the UK)?

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/l1 ... background
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

And, since it's a mutation of RM-269I, then do it's ultimate origins lie with that haplogroup?
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 13:25 I found this project online.

If this was your Y haplogroup, and your paternal paper trail was all from Sicily back to the 1700s, would you accept that your surname line has ancient origins in Scotland (or at least the UK)?

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/l1 ... background
For the mutation that created R-L1066, yes. R-M269 is much more ancient and can't be narrowed beyond "Eurasian".

How some of these mutations arrived at the geographic locations they did may never be known...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 13:37 And, since it's a mutation of RM-269I, then do it's ultimate origins lie with that haplogroup?
Yes. But it's only defined as "Eurasia"...
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

So, I can assume the surname line made it's way from Eurasia to the UK before coming to Sicily, and that we're talking about very ancient origins, well before AD?

If so, it's not much help. Autosomal percentages would then seem more useful.
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 19:19 So, I can assume the surname line made it's way from Eurasia to the UK before coming to Sicily, and that we're talking about very ancient origins, well before AD?

If so, it's not much help. Autosomal percentages would then seem more useful.
In your case, yes, autosomal is the best bet.
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Re: Why Y-DNA Haplogroup?

Post by darkerhorse »

Why wouldn't it be everybody's best bet?
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