Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

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dvasques
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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 14 May 2018, 12:59

Tessa78 wrote:
29 Aug 2017, 21:47
The parents of Michele Gramuglia in BA #62 are Santo Rocco Gramuglia and Domenica Gramuglia.

FYI - I have been searching for a marriage for Michele/Miguel's parents in a few towns in Reggio Calabria (for the 20 years before 1900)
I have found many Gramuglia marriages, and even found one or two Carmine Gramuglia, but the bride is never Carmina Severina. :-(

T.
This Santo Rocco could be indeed part of the family (Carmine's brother)

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 14 May 2018, 15:04

Because of that, I've found two records (death certificates) of whom I suspect are Michele and Concetta's (Concetta Versace) children, along with Carmine.
The first is Antonina Gramuglia (1871-1913) that have died in Bagnara Calabra and the other is Santo Rocco Gramuglia (1876-1943) also in Bagnara Calabra.

Here are the links to these two records:
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 6.jpg.html

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 4.jpg.html

Your links to the deaths of the children do not work.

Can you repost them?

EDIT***
Here is the death act for Antonina Gramuglia in 1913...
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 6.jpg.html
She is age 42, born in Bagnara to deceased Michele Gramuglia and to deceased Concetta Versace.
She was the wife of Antonino Cardillo.

AND...
Here is the death act for Santo Rocco Gramuglia in 1943
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
He was age 67, born in Bagnara to deceased Michele Gramuglia and to deceased Concetta Versace.
He was the husband of Domenica Gramuglia

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 14 May 2018, 16:43

Thanks for reposting the links, Tessa!

I've tried to find their birth records in Bagnara, but haven't had any success.
I suspect that the three of them are from a little comune around Bagnara then, while Carmine moved to Brazil, Antonina and Santo Rocco moved to Bagnara.

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Tessa78
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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 16 May 2018, 03:43

I believe this is the Birth Act of Carmine Gramuglia, son of Michele Gramuglia and Concetta Versace.
Born in Bagnara Calabra on 27 November 1867.
F: Michele Gramuglia, 35, laborer, son of deceased Vincenzo[this is an error - see the marriage below]
M: Concetta Versace, his wife, daughter of deceased Domenico
Act #235
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Marriage of Michele Gramuglia and Concetta Versace in Bagnara in 1863 on 24 October
Groom: Michele Gramuglia, 31, laborer born and residing Bagnara. Son of deceased Carmine and of Antonina Sidari
Bride: Concetta Versace, widow, 30, born and residing in Bagnara. Daughter of Francesco and of Rosa Tripodi
#33
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Birth of Michele Gramuglia in 1831 in Bagnara

#239
Father: Carmine Gramuglia, 30, laborer
Mother: Antonina Sidari, 26, his wife
Child was born on 28 December 1831 at 1 AM.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 16 May 2018, 14:26

:shock:
This is great! Very exciting!

Thanks a lot, Tessa!

Question: do you think that Concetta's father was a mistake too? In Carmine's birth act, her father is Domenico, but in her marriage act, her father is Francesco.

I just got the information (due to the tree of another person) that Santo Rocco moved to Oppido Mamertina, to work to rebuild the town after an earthquake. It might be possible that Carmine also moved to work in that town!

Thanks again :D

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 16 May 2018, 16:49

dvasques wrote:
16 May 2018, 14:26
:shock:
This is great! Very exciting!

Thanks a lot, Tessa!

Question: do you think that Concetta's father was a mistake too? In Carmine's birth act, her father is Domenico, but in her marriage act, her father is Francesco.

I just got the information (due to the tree of another person) that Santo Rocco moved to Oppido Mamertina, to work to rebuild the town after an earthquake. It might be possible that Carmine also moved to work in that town!

Thanks again :D

Here is the birth act of Concetta Versace - her father is Francesco
#82 in 1833
Born on 22 May 1833 to Francesco Versace, 26, laborer; and to Rosa Tripodi, 15, his legitimate wife.
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 16 May 2018, 19:33

Nice!

It seems that the info about Oppido Mamertina is no good. I haven't found any Gramuglia in there.

I think I'll start looking for Carmela Severino (Sovarino) again, like you suggested months ago, Tessa.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 17 May 2018, 18:58

It puzzles me that I cannot find a Publication of banns of Marriage in Bagnara for the marriage of Carmine Gramuglia and Carmela Severino/Sovarino...
Even if they were married in the hometown of the bride, the banns would need to be posted in the groom's place of birth.
Going through the Pubblicazione records I saw the marriage of Santo Rocco to Domenica Gramuglia, but have not found Carmine. This brings some possibilities to my mind:

1 - the mother's surname on the naturalization card for Michele is incorrect, not just misspelled
2 - the couple was not married in Italy
3 - the couple was never married in a civil ceremony

You say that you have found the death certificate of Carmine in Brazil - have you also tried to find a death certificate for Carmela? Did she emigrate to Brazil with the family? OR was she deceased at the time of their move?

I have checked the marriage and publication records for the towns within which you would find the Severino/a surname - but no success.

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 17 May 2018, 19:47

Yes, that is driving me crazy. All the information we have on her is different from one another.

a- We believe that her son Michele was born in Italy because of his naturalization card, where his dob is 02/03/1900 and her name appears as Carmela Severina;
b- The church marriage certificate (her son Michele and Lucrezia) in Brazil, from 08/09/1917, says he was 19, then his dob would be 1898, and Carmela's name appears as Carmella Seraçina;
c- The civil marriage certificate (Michele and Lucrezia), also from 08/09/1917, says he was 19 and Carmela's name appears as Carmella Severina;
d- Michele's death certificate, from 28/10/1960, says he was 69! Carmela appears as Carmela Severino;
e- Her name appears as Carmella Sovarina in her daughter's (Concetta) naturalization card.

I called this morning the registry where I believe Carmela's death certificate is. I'm waiting for them to call me back to confirm.

We believe she was alive and emigrated with the family. I haven't found any immigration record for the whole family, that so far, we believe it was parents Carmine and Carmela, and children Concetta and Michele.

I heard that Carmela's parents were Affonso Severino and Rosa Sergi, but I am not 100% sure (I haven't seen any documents saying that). Hopefully, her death certificate will give us a hint.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 17 May 2018, 20:50

It turns out that her death certificate was there:

Carmela Severina died on 27/04/1936, age 60. Daughter of Affonso Severino and Rosa Sergi (the family was right!).
It also says that she was married in Italy to Carmine Gramuglia and that she was from Reggio Calabria (but it does not say whether the commune or the province).

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 17 May 2018, 20:54

Well, that helps!

Did she die before or after Carmine?
The reason I ask... Carmine would know best the name of her parents...

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 17 May 2018, 20:55

After! Carmine died in 1947.

Tree with updated info:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t1zWnphvA2svBxu66

EDIT:
Is there a better way to share the tree?

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by dvasques » 18 May 2018, 20:50

dvasques wrote:
17 May 2018, 20:55
After! Carmine died in 1947. Sorry, I meant Carmine died after Carmela!

Tree with updated info:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/t1zWnphvA2svBxu66

EDIT:
Is there a better way to share the tree?

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Tessa78
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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by Tessa78 » 18 May 2018, 22:13

That is better news! He would be the best source for the names of her parents.

I was able to open the tree on another device, thank you.

T.

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Re: Searching for birth certificate in Reggio Calabria

Post by MaryMena » 19 May 2018, 00:59

Reading through this thread reminded me that a while back, while researching my comune of Ardore, I came across records for Bagnara that had been misfiled under Ardore. The Bagnara records are supplementary lists for the years 1784-1816 and are Images 50-240. They might already exist under Bagnara, but just in case they don't, here is the link.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

MaryMena

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