RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

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RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

doing some research on the maternal ancestry of singer dean martin. born dino crocetti in steubenville ohio in 1917. his father,gaetano crocetti,according to find a grave,was born in montesilvano,pescara italy in ca.1894 and died in 1967. his mother, angela barr(barra), was born in west virginia or ohio ca.1897 to italian born parents dominico barra and josephine miraglia. she died in 1966. the question is where in italy were they born? i'm thinking the naples area but i can't find anything relating to their birthplace or even passenger records,which might give some information. they probably immigrated in the 1890s, and appeared to have lived in west virginia before moving to ohio. any help in finding their place of origin in italy most appreciated.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

Hi here the marriage of Gaetano Crocetti and Angelina Barr, born in Fernwood, Jefferson County, OHIO
Angelina Barr
mentioned in the record of Gaetano Crocetti and Angelina Barr
Name
Gaetano Crocetti
Event Type
Marriage
Event Date
25 Oct 1914
Event Place
Jefferson, Ohio, United States
Age
22
Birth Year (Estimated)
1892
Father's Name
Giavani Crocetti
Mother's Name
Maria Focosa
Spouse's Name
Angelina Barr
Spouse's Age
17
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated)
1897
Spouse's Father's Name
Domenico Barr
Spouse's Mother's Name
Maria Miraglia
I will search abt her italian parents.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

The declaration of intentions of Domenico Bar..

Domnick or Domnich Bar
Ohio, County Naturalization Records
Name Domnick or Domnich Bar
Event Type Naturalization
Event Date 1894
Event Place Jefferson, Ohio, United States
Event Place Jefferson
Age 35
Birth Year (Estimated) 1859
Birthplace Italy

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1987615
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

ages given at the time of marriage were always questionable in the case of immigrants. years and ages varied. example: gaetano crocetti's year of birth varied,from 1892 to 1894 while the american born angela's year of 1897 was pretty consistent. no doubt this was due to the birth record of the immigrant being unavailable as well as his own uncertainty about his year of birth. whats frustrating is the exact place of birth is never given,town and province,only the country. italy. then you have to somehow find the place of origin if you can locate the passenger record or some other document with that information. with angela's parents its even harder as youre going further back. gaetano's year of arrival was ca.1913 but angela's parents,domenico and josephine,probably arrived much earlier,in the 1890s.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

the 1900 census:
Dorincion Barr
United States Census, 1900
Name Dorincion Barr
Event Type Census
Event Year 1900
Event Place New Cumberland town, Hancock, West Virginia, United States
Gender Male
Age 43
Marital Status Married
Race White
Race W
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Years Married 8
Birth Date Feb 1857
Birthplace Italy
Marriage Year (Estimated) 1892
Immigration Year 1888
Father's Birthplace Italy
Mother's Birthplace Italy
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Dorincion Barr Head M 43 Italy
Mary J Barr Wife F 58 Italy
Michael Barr Son M 6 Ohio
Antonio Barr Son M 4 Ohio
Angell Barr Daughter F 3 Ohio
Annie M Barr Daughter F 1 Ohio
Mondis Pasquale Boarder M 29 Italy
George Madedor Boarder M 33 Italy
Dominick Lagun Boarder M 33 Italy
Nick Kness Boarder M 38 Italy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1325221

Angela was born in Ohio..
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

as you can see,much of this information is questionable if not inaccurate. the original births in italy of domenico barra and josephine miraglia would most likely differ from the ages given here. even the year of immigration is in doubt as i've seen immigrants give different years in different records,often times not that many years after immigrating,which is strange considering how could you forget the year of making such a major change in life? the only dates reasonably accurate are the marriages and deaths,as they occurred here. but as you can see,still no exact places of birth in italy for domenico or josephine.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

Donna,
in genealogical research, more credit is given to documents closer to the immigration period. That is, if they immigrated in 1887 the nearest census is 1900. Because there was still a strong memory of emigration.
The age on the censuses has a very relative importance, because the genealogist knows that he cannot and must not rely on them. Even more so if we add the fact that the transcripts are inaccurate. So the focus in this research is not the age you often refer to, but the exact spelling of the Domenico surname and then looking for the place of birth. We know the other things, the other discrepancies, we have come across the fatal errors of ages in the searches... NO problem.... We really don't care. I place these things to get a complete picture of what is in the USA about this family, before looking in Italy. As Leonardo da Vinci said: "you know the subject" ie investigates and you know well what you want to do .. and we want to look for Dean Martin's maternal grandparents, and so this is the precognitive phase of the research, that is, collecting clues and documents get to the goal.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

Here the Birth of Antonio Barr born on 1th aug 1896 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1932106
the mother name is spelled Jessie Merrill.. so both the surnames of couple was anglicized.. her ful name was maria Giuseppa or Maria Giuseppina Miraglia… I search the more old document near the theyr immigration hoping to find the italian surname spell..
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

well the Angela maiden name is BARRA... surely! here the marriage of her parents:
Dominic Barra
mentioned in the record of Dominic Barra and Maria Jo Mirallis
Name
Dominic Barra
Event Type
Marriage
Event Date
13 Aug 1893
Event Place
Jefferson, Ohio, United States
Spouse's Name
Maria Jo Mirallis

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1614804
the her mother first name
is Maria Giuseppa or Maria Giuseppina..
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

mirallis is probably miraglia. maria giuseppina miraglia. dominico barra shortened to barr. i'm usually pretty good at discerning the original surnames in relation to the misspellings often entered on the original documents. same with immigration documents. names were entered as they sounded to the usually non italian officials. so we have dominico barra and maria giuseppina miraglia married in ohio in 1893. probably only here 5 years or so. as is usually the case,but not always,immigrants married others from their locality,or at least the same region. gaetano crocetti was born in the abruzzi and most likely angela's parents were from campania or some neighboring area. but gaetano and angela met and married in the us and their families weren't known to each other in italy,whereas theres a good chance the families of dominico and giuseppina were connected in italy,as they were both recent immigrants and more likely to be from the same place. only hope is to find passenger records for dominico and giuseppina,but most pre ellis island records-before 1892-revealed very little about places of origin. maybe the port of departure at best. later records usually noted the last place of residence,which is a big help. thats usually where you can find the birth record of the emigrant.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

Maria Giuseppina on 1900 census stated that she went in USA on 1893 same year of marriage… Domenico was already in USA…. I searched abt Miraglia and I found a Maria Giuseppa Miraglia, but immigrated on 1895 and married.. and cannot be… better to search the birthplace of other Miraglias and Barras in Jefferson county, OHIO, maybe one could be a paysano… I read on line that someone says that the Barra coming from Campania region and someone that the Barra coming from also Abruzzo region… so the mystery continue!
Hoping to find more!
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

a pattern seemed to be an immigrant sending for a bride from his hometown. but that would mean finding dominico's town of origin first. a naturalization record would also help if he were naturalized.
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

both barra and miraglia are diffuse and found throughout italy. the miraglia are moderately represented in the naples area but the barra are very heavily concentrated in the naples area. found this info. at cognomi di italia
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by suanj »

mezzogiorno62 wrote: 18 Jun 2019, 22:25 a pattern seemed to be an immigrant sending for a bride from his hometown. but that would mean finding dominico's town of origin first. a naturalization record would also help if he were naturalized.
oh yes, he was naturalized!

Domnick or Domnich Bar
Ohio, County Naturalization Records
Name
Domnick or Domnich Bar
Event Type
Naturalization
Event Date
1894
Event Place
Jefferson, Ohio, United States
Event Place
Jefferson
Age
35
Birth Year (Estimated)
1859
Birthplace
Italy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1987615
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Re: RE: MATERNAL ANCESTRY OF DEAN MARTIN

Post by mezzogiorno62 »

but once again,no specific place of origin,just the country. and still another misspelling of barra. now its just bar. what will be found next? just ba? both 1st and last name continually misspelled. even for a non italian speaker i can't see how dominico barra would be so difficult to interpret or decipher. what would they have done to some long polish name with no vowels and all consonants? by comparison italian names were relatively easy. should have had italian record keepers in ohio or america in general to take this information lol. i found a d barra in the ny passenger records 1820-1891 for 1888. aboard the audia (?) from naples. possibly him but no comune of origin as usuall not found in these pre 1892 arrivals. found a few m miraglia as well.
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