Help determining if 2 people were brothers

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lyn1982
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Help determining if 2 people were brothers

Post by lyn1982 » 12 Oct 2019, 23:30

Can anyone help me in determining if my ancestor Joseph Abbo was brothers with a Thomas Abballe? I have several records on both and would like to order Thomas's nat papers if they are likely to be brothers, but I've been unable to determine if they are or not. My ancestor wasn't naturalized, unfortunately, he didn't even file papers and I am at a complete brick wall on him for the longest time. Even just some opinions on whether I could be on to something here or completely off base would help.

Here is a tree I made with most of the documents I have (I didn't include some city directories and other things that don't really contribute much). https://www.rootsfinder.com/tree/70988/ ... -W2P7-C7N2 along with a list of reasons why I think they might be/might not be.

Reasons they might be brothers:

- They both list parents Domenico and Mary on their marriage and SS card ap records.

- Both Joseph and Thomas named their eldest son Domenico. Thomas's eldest daughter was named Rosemary. Joseph has eldest daughter Mary and of his other daughters does have one named Rose.

- Both lived in Western NY. Thomas lived in Rochester, NY which is less then an hour away from Lyons NY, which is where my ancestor's obituary says he lived for 2 years after immigrating in 1913. However, I've searched extensively and been unable to locate my ancestor's immigration record. I did find a Giuseppe Abballe (here https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNY3-K47 ) arriving in 1913, last place of residence M. S. Giovanni, Roma, and last place of residence on Thomas Abballe's 1921 passenger manifest is San Giovanni, (side note I checked births there and they didn't have 1903 for Thomas but was no Giuseppe Abballe born to father Domenico that I could find, there was one born to a Luigi tho, but date doesn't match mine from what I can tell). The Giuseppe on this manifest can read/write (mine can't according to the census), is over 10 years older than mine, married and leaving behind a father of Luigi. So I think it may be a cousin of mine but seems unlikely to be my great grandfather.

- Both have their birthplace listed as Rome, Italy in records in spite of fact neither of their births was found there when I browsed on antenati in their years and all nearby years.(I've also checked Alatri, Sacrofano, and Monte San Giovanni Campano records)

Reasons they might not be siblings:

- Both give differing names for their mother's surname. Joseph gives Paris and Pretrain in his records. Thomas gives his as Samori and Simone in his. Thomas is, however, going to a cousin Agostino Papetti on his manifest here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6GV-FYZ so perhaps they didn't know their mother's correct surname?

- Surnames are different. The only evidence I really have that Josephs original surname might be Abballe is the WW1 draft record which may or may not be his which lists him as Joseph F Abol. I'm 80% sure this draft record is his, given the close match on name, match on employment and city lived in, but the birth date on it does differ from all Joseph's other documents. However, I've searched and browsed extensively and found no other record that comes close to matching.

- I can't find anything to link them together. Neither's obituary mentions any siblings. Perhaps the obituary for the other possible sibling Herman Abballe who is in the 1925 census with Thomas would help solve it, but I'm doubtful. I've not been able to find much on the Herman Abballe in that census other then some city directories of him in Rochester.

Would love some unbiased opinions as to whether these 2 are likely to be brothers or not.

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Italysearcher
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Re: Help determining if 2 people were brothers

Post by Italysearcher » 16 Oct 2019, 09:43

Since Italian women retain their birth surname after marriage it is unlikly they didn't know their mother's true surname. Monte San Giovanni Campano was part of Rome and not all of the second copies of documents survived so were not digitized by Family Search but the town has them. Abballe is a surname of Monte San Giovanni but Abbo is rare and found oly in Rome. You need to confirm you have the right ship manifest for your ancestor! If you need help with this contact Maria at lostquays@ymail.com.
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lyn1982
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Re: Help determining if 2 people were brothers

Post by lyn1982 » 16 Oct 2019, 22:28

Italysearcher wrote:
16 Oct 2019, 09:43
Since Italian women retain their birth surname after marriage it is unlikly they didn't know their mother's true surname. Monte San Giovanni Campano was part of Rome and not all of the second copies of documents survived so were not digitized by Family Search but the town has them. Abballe is a surname of Monte San Giovanni but Abbo is rare and found oly in Rome. You need to confirm you have the right ship manifest for your ancestor! If you need help with this contact Maria at lostquays@ymail.com.
Thank you for the reply. They both each state at least 2 different surnames for their mother on their records, and in the Frosinone draft records Thomas's mothers surname is different from all these surnames. I don't think I have the right ship manifest, I'm thinking my ancestor may have undergone a complete surname change upon his arrival into the US. As for Thomas, I have 3 different mothers surname's all for his mother, yet his mother is who he is leaving behind on his manifest so it can't be as I thought that she was perhaps died when he was young. Perhaps she wasn't sure of her surname for whatever reason, perhaps illegitmate birth or something?

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