Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

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Jcox129
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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 13 Aug 2019, 16:52

Sorry in advance for the lengthy comment.

Thanks for the help translating! Knowing that Raffaele was born in Padula is extremely helpful. I am working on searching for more of the children's death records. I also found more of their children that I did not know about. These are the children I have located in either birth, marriage, or death records so far, all of which list Raffaele and Luigia as their parents. I am going to search more thoroughly today and see if I can locate any records I am still missing. I'm not posting their record links right now, as I need to get more organized.

These are the children who list them as their parents in either birth, marriage, or death records.

Children whose birth records I have:
Michele Archangiolo - born 1830
Mariantonia Nunziata - born 1832, died 1886
Michele - born 1833
Carmela - born 1836
Michele Vincenzo - born 1841 (possibly died in 1850)
Maria Rosa - born 1843 died 1898
Antonio - born 1845
Maria - born 1857, died 1858

Children I have no birth records for:

There is another Antonio who is in the birth index for 1839 but I cannot find the actual birth record - they seem to be out of order but I have looked through the entire year twice. I don't know how I'm missing it.

There is a Giovanni who I have a marriage record for but can't find birth. His marriage was in 1859 to Angelio Grossa. I believe it says he was 19 at the time of their wedding. His birth record is included in his marriage processeti, but I can't read what year it was and haven't been able to find the original. I also have a death record for him in 1914.

There are also death records for the following children I have no birth records for:

Filomena - died 1848 (might say age 5?)

Mariangiola - died 1848 (age might say 9-something, maybe 9 hours?)

Vincenzo - died 1850 - It looks like it says he was 10. I am wondering if it is the same person as Michele Vincenzo who was born in 1841 that I have a birth record for.

Now that my kids are back in school I have time to get organized and really dig in. :)

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Tessa78
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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Tessa78 » 13 Aug 2019, 22:42

Here is the link to Antonio's birth on 26 September 1839 (#259)
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

Can you post the link to Giovanni's marriage Processetti, please?

Filomena's death act on 10 February 1848 indicates that she is 5 days old.
Filomena and Mariangiola D'Elisa were twins - born 7 February 1848 (#32 and #33)
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0
Vincenzo - died 1850 - It looks like it says he was 10 YES. I am wondering if it is the same person as Michele Vincenzo who was born in 1841 that I have a birth record for.
That is a reasonable assumption.

Giovanni DeLisa was born in 1837 (#367) on 22 December
Father is Raffaele, 32, and mother is Luigia Milano, 25.
The birth act from the Processetti
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0
In the marriage records Giovanni is age 22, and a property owner. Angela Grosso is age 18.
It should be noted that Raffaele, in the marriage record of his son, is also listed as a property owner.

Here is Giovanni's original act of birth in 1837
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

T.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 00:37

Here is the link to Giovanni's marriage processeti.

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 9.jpg.html

Edit - I see now that you already had found it.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 00:52

Also, I found this listing for a Michele diLisa on Family Search. The user who added him attached seven sources. Michele was from Padula and married to Rosa Caputo. Looking at the sources, it seems likely that he may be Raffaele's father, since those are the names of the parents on Rafaelle's death record. Here is the source list.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/perso ... s/LTV6-QQ4

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Tessa78
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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Tessa78 » 14 Aug 2019, 01:02

Yes, I would agree.

Also, I posted Giovanni's original birth act above, along with Antonio, Filomena, and Mariangiola's.

T.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 01:41

Thank you, I had commented back but it didn't post. I was going to ask, was it very common in that area at that time for someone to be a property owner?

Also, what area of the birth acts do I find the birthdates when I'm looking? I notice the records sometimes have multiple dates - I am assuming the date listed in the right hand column is the day the birth occurred, and the first date in the first portion of the record is the day that the birth was reported. Is this correct? Also, are the dates listed in the index the birth dates or date birth was reported?

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 07:49

I found Luigia Milano's death act.

1889, record #22.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/18 ... 1232-00007

Her daughter's death act in 1898 must have had an error by recording that she was still alive at that time.

If I am correct, it states that the record is dated 8 July 1889, and that she resided in Paterno and was born in Paterno. She is reported as 80 years old. Her father is the deceased Francesco Antonio Milano and her mother is the deceased Nunziata Battiste.

Did I get the info right? Still working out the date of death.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Tessa78 » 14 Aug 2019, 15:17

Great find!

Yes, another error in a record stating that she was still living :-(

The date of the record (first line) is 8 July 1889. The date of death (look at the line above her name in the body of the record) is "ieri" - yesterday. So she died on the 7th.
You have the information about age and birthplace correct, as well as her parents' names (mother's surname is Battista with an ending "a")

As to your question about date of birth on birth acts.
The acts that have a separate column on the right - this is the date of the Baptism.
The body of the record usually has the date of presentation (as you stated) at the first line. Further down in the record will be the date and time of the actual birth.

T.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 16:05

Wonderful! Thank you so much!

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 16:20

In Mariantonio's matrimoni processeti for her marriage to Giovanni Votta, I noticed this copy of the death record of Giovanni's first wife:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

What I was able to make out (hopefully) is this:

On the 5th of August, informants Angelo Votta, age 50, farmer residing in Marsico, and Michele Pasquale, age 30, a farmer residing in Marsico, reported that on the 5th of August, at home, was the death of Maria Grosso, age 30, in Marsico, profession farmer, living in Marsico, whose father is Giannario and whose mother was the deceased Rosa Bliase (?), and that she was the wife of Giovanni Votta.

Can you help translate the handwriting in the bottom portion of the document? What is the note about Michele Giuseppe Pasquarelli, and August 1848 (which is also when the marriage in this processeti took place)? Is this just a note for the copy in the processeti? Or did she die the same month that Giovanni then remarried?

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Tessa78 » 14 Aug 2019, 17:40

Jcox129 wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 16:20
In Mariantonio's matrimoni processeti for her marriage to Giovanni Votta, I noticed this copy of the death record of Giovanni's first wife:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

What I was able to make out (hopefully) is this:

On the 5th of August, informants Angelo Votta, age 50, farmer residing in Marsico, and Michele Pasquale, age 30, a farmer residing in Marsico, reported that on the 5th of August, at home, was the death of Maria Grosso, age 30, in Marsico, profession farmer, living in Marsico, whose father is Giannario and whose mother was the deceased Rosa Bliase (?), and that she was the wife of Giovanni Votta.

Can you help translate the handwriting in the bottom portion of the document? What is the note about Michele Giuseppe Pasquarelli, and August 1848 (which is also when the marriage in this processeti took place)? Is this just a note for the copy in the processeti? Or did she die the same month that Giovanni then remarried?
The notation at the bottom states that the witnesses are unable to write their signature and that this is a copy of the birth act that conforms to the legal requirements for the marriage of Michele Giuseppe Pasquarelli, dated 10 August 1848.

Maria Grosso died on 5 August 1848.

T.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 18:38

Thank you. I'm still searching for Raffaele and Luigia's marriage. Unless it is for some reason not indexed, or is later than their first child's birth, it really doesn't seem to be in Marsico Nuovo. You mentioned that Paterno is a hamlet in Marsico Nuovo and I saw Luigia's death record said she was born in Paterno. Had the town boundaries changed in the years between when her marriage would have taken place and her death, so Paterno wasn't in Marsico when they married? Or does Paterno have it's own records outside of the Marsico Nuovo records? I suppose it could also be another clerical error and perhaps she wasn't born in Paterno after all. Does it say on their son Michearchangelo's 1930 birth record that they were a a married couple, or was he born out of wedlock?

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 14 Aug 2019, 18:47

I'm sorry I am asking so many questions. I am just trying to cover every possible avenue that could lead me to the marriage and you are very experienced in this. Your help and advice has been so valuable to me. I know it is possible that the record won't be found. This has been very good practice for me to learn to track down records and be more thorough in my searches. It is the most difficult record I have tried to find so far so I'm glad I am able to learn so much from the search.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Tessa78 » 14 Aug 2019, 18:49

Jcox129 wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 18:38
Thank you. I'm still searching for Raffaele and Luigia's marriage. Unless it is for some reason not indexed, or is later than their first child's birth, it really doesn't seem to be in Marsico Nuovo. You mentioned that Paterno is a hamlet in Marsico Nuovo and I saw Luigia's death record said she was born in Paterno. Had the town boundaries changed in the years between when her marriage would have taken place and her death, so Paterno wasn't in Marsico when they married? Or does Paterno have it's own records outside of the Marsico Nuovo records? I suppose it could also be another clerical error and perhaps she wasn't born in Paterno after all. Does it say on their son Michearchangelo's 1930 birth record that they were a a married couple, or was he born out of wedlock?
Records for the hamlet (frazione) of Paterno would be held at the Comune of Marsico.
It is a puzzle that we cannot find the marriage.
Luigia's place of birth is not mentioned on the birth act of Michel'Arcangiola.
Marital status is also not mentioned. That is not unusual

T.

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Re: Need help finding marriage record in Marsico Nuovo area...

Post by Jcox129 » 16 Aug 2019, 17:43

Still no marriage record, but I did find two additional daughters. They names them after their deceased twin girls. No new information for me to go on at this time. I've exhausted so many avenues but am not ready to put this aside yet. Perhaps I can discover siblings for Luigia Milano, or death records for her parents. If so, maybe they will point me in the right direction. With such a large family, surely there are useful discoveries to be made in their records. I appreciate the time and effort you've spent helping me. I feel much more confident in my research skills now and I'm excited to utilize this new knowledge.

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